NIFTY Futures Mechanical Trading

[marcus]

Hi Saneep & sonali
No. it is not necessarily to keep watch nifty movement entire session. you can place SL order below 10 points support or above 10 points resistance exactly double qty of your lot in order to square-off existing position and at the same time taking opposite position. But now, the market is still volatile and not stabilised so trade accordingly as per your risk appetite.

How do you do this?

As you are a broker can you tell me how to do this. Just as an example lets assume we are long at todays close of 4500, your resistance for next day is 4600 and support is 4400.

Before trading commences you give a limit order with suitable trigger to sell twice the quantity at 4400 and another order to buy twice the quantity at 4600.

Please consider the following two senarios


1)So if next day nifty opens at 4500 and falls to 4400 your sell order gets triggered and you sell twice the quantity your position is reversed and you are short, after this the nifty starts moving up and crosses 4600 and your oder is triggered so u automatically buy twice the quantity and once again your position is reversed and you are long now.

If this happens is fine

2)The nifty opens at 4500 and you are long but doesn't go down it goes up and crosses 4600 so the buy order you placed will be triggered, so you will buy twice the quantity, you are now currently long but have three times the number of lots you should actually have simply because your sell order was not triggered as the nifty never fell to that level.

Please explain how you handle scenario 2.

 

[callme2shy]

How do you do this?

As you are a broker can you tell me how to do this. Just as an example lets assume we are long at todays close of 4500, your resistance for next day is 4600 and support is 4400.

Before trading commences you give a limit order with suitable trigger to sell twice the quantity at 4400 and another order to buy twice the quantity at 4600.

Please consider the following two senarios


1)So if next day nifty opens at 4500 and falls to 4400 your sell order gets triggered and you sell twice the quantity your position is reversed and you are short, after this the nifty starts moving up and crosses 4600 and your oder is triggered so u automatically buy twice the quantity and once again your position is reversed and you are long now.

If this happens is fine

2)The nifty opens at 4500 and you are long but doesn't go down it goes up and crosses 4600 so the buy order you placed will be triggered, so you will buy twice the quantity, you are now currently long but have three times the number of lots you should actually have simply because your sell order was not triggered as the nifty never fell to that level.

Please explain how you handle scenario 2.

dear marcus

Its pretty simple. You dont look at the resistance when u are long. Just look at the support. Place short of double qty at support breaching. if this order is trigerred then only place long orders of double qty at resistance. at one time look at one SL only (support is SL for longs and resistance is SL for shorts) Place only one order of double qty for the current position.

so now in your scenario 2... you have longs with SL order at 4400 and no order at 4600. you continue holding your longs after 4600 as you dont look at 4600. 4400 is what you look at when long, remember!!!

Its a pretty gud system but the market has to behave properly.

 

[nadodav]

Dear Marcus,

what callme2shy said is correct. Just place one order of double qty and not two orders. e.g we are LONG than only place for sell SL order of double qty so only one order at a time to change position. once your position chaned, you can place second order. I think this kind of instances are not so frequently. Those who are not against trading screen whole day may be atleast looking 3-4 times a day. so there should not be much problem in placing SL orders after market opens. This also has one more advantage. In case due to any other reason like power cut, internet problem or even technological problem at your broker end your position will change automatically if you place SL order.

Thanks

Vinod

 

[marcus]

Dear Vinod

I think you may have misunderstood Sandeep's original question which was

Is it necessary to monitor the nifty futures thru the entire trading session or do you just place orders after the opening. I am a part time trader, that is why I asked this question

To elaborate I place orders before the session begins, I go to work/whatever I log in when I return home or after markets close, this is commonly reffered to as EOD trading.

Coming to my senario number two if I place one order at a time and then place the next order only if the first order was executed I would have to monitor the markets to know that my first original order has been executed and my position reversed.

There is no way of knowing my position is reversed unless I monitor the markets which defeats the objective of my original question. If I attempt to pace only one order for the day and not monitor the markets if resistance is breached at the end of the day I would have a considerable loss even if it happens a few times a year.


My answer to Sandeep's question is it can not be done on any online terminal in India that I know of, the only possibility is if I use an offline broker in which case before markets open I can give verbal instructions to reverse my position if support is breached and then reverse again if resistance is breached. In which case I do not need to monitor the market for the day.

 

[sandeep721]

Dear Vinod

Thanks for your reply. As for the point that marcus has raised, I think there may be at max one or two volatile times in a year that problem might be faced, otherwise I don't think that it should be a major problem.

One more thing that I noticed (since I try to study technical analysis) , is that your system will work best in strong trending markets, but will give some losses in range bound or volatile markets. This is just an observation from my end and nothing to criticise your system , which I think is very good.

Also I hope that you continue to post these levels everyday and in case if you want to STOP for personal reasons then maybe you can explain the method for computing these levels so that we can still continue trading on your system.

Good work, keep it up
Thanks and regards

Sandeep

 

[nadodav]

NIFTY FUTURE For February 1,

Current position : SHORT (at 5224 on 30/01/2007)

Nifty Fut Closed at : 5083.60

Profit/(Loss) in current trade : +140.40 (as per last closing price)
Net Profit / (Loss) since thread started : +1025.40 (885.00+140.40)
Roll-over diff : -28

Support : 5029
Resistance : 5193

Hold SHORT positions with SL 5193 If trades above 5193, exit SHORT & go LONG with SL 5029.

All new members visiting first time are requested to read all messages start from first one before going ahead.

Happy Trading.

Vinod

 

[bhaveshdj]

Regarding original q for parttime trading, if you dont want to watch screen all day there are 2 solutions:1. Reliance money has feature of sending a sms when trade executed. 2. Indiabulls softwares and other softares have a audio alert system

 

[sachin_jain3]

Dear All,

I have attached trades of last year in first message of the thread. I request all specially Robin to put your feedback. we will discuss all issues.

Here is summary -

Total Gain in 2007 : 2828 points

Total Trades : 73
Profitable Trades : 32
Loss Making Trades : 41
Largest Profitable trade : 636
Largest Loss making trade :-217
Largest cumulative losses : -377 points (marked in yellow background)
Profits on Profitable trades : 4903
Losses on Lossmaking trades : 2075
Avg. Profit on Profitable trades : 153.22
Avg Loss on Loss Making trades : 50.61

Thanks & Regards
Awaiting feedback from all

Vinod

Dear Vinod,

There are some adjustments that need to made to calculate the real profit for the entire year especially for traders who dont want to be watching the screen all day long to ascertain stop losses. Also we need to adjust the profits for brokrage. Since you advocate that traders can place stop loss 7 to 10 points below or above the resistance / support as the case may be, each trade will cost us an extra 14 to 20 points per trade (because we loose on both sides of the trade). Also a brokrage of 5 points per trade is reasonable (at least that what i pay to my broker. If somebody has a better deal please let me know) So we are expensing an extra 19 to 24 points per trade. If i take on the lower end say 20 points per trade then on 73 trades the adjustment will look like this:

Total profit = 2828 points ---A
adjustment for stop losses and brokerages: 73*20 = 1460 points. ---B
Net profit (A-B) = 2828 - 1460 = 1368.
Would you agree or or would want to change these adjustments?

Thanks,
Sachin

 

[callme2shy]

hey sachin,

try emkay brokers they charge flat 99 rs on each trade (buy/sell) ie 198 for one buy + sell.

secondly the very proof that the levels mentioned are to be taken exactly, rather than 10 to 15 pts lower/upper, is given by the profit/loss fig (2828 in this case for 07) which it self is calculated by taking the levels exactly. so i suggest trade the levels exactly u might get some wrong trades but long run should be gud (if market behaves)

 

[ravalsb]

Sachin,

You can even provide for capital gains on that. I cant understand wat is the point you are trying to make?

Profit of 1368 for one lot of Nifty is not bad. How much % growth you would expect on your investment.

Cant you see that this system clearly tells you well in advance when the trends are changing.

Profits will come, just stay with the markets, go up with them i.e. Buy and come down with them i.e. short. Which system gives you this accurate siganls to stay with market trend with this simplicity. Just check, most of the time this guy has changed his position just before market reversal.

Dear Vinod,

There are some adjustments that need to made to calculate the real profit for the entire year especially for traders who dont want to be watching the screen all day long to ascertain stop losses. Also we need to adjust the profits for brokrage. Since you advocate that traders can place stop loss 7 to 10 points below or above the resistance / support as the case may be, each trade will cost us an extra 14 to 20 points per trade (because we loose on both sides of the trade). Also a brokrage of 5 points per trade is reasonable (at least that what i pay to my broker. If somebody has a better deal please let me know) So we are expensing an extra 19 to 24 points per trade. If i take on the lower end say 20 points per trade then on 73 trades the adjustment will look like this:

Total profit = 2828 points ---A
adjustment for stop losses and brokerages: 73*20 = 1460 points. ---B
Net profit (A-B) = 2828 - 1460 = 1368.
Would you agree or or would want to change these adjustments?

Thanks,
Sachin