The Crash( 17.5.2006) and FII activities since then

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pkjha30

Well-Known Member
HI

Mood swings are normally related to the level of hormones of various kinds in the human body.When market goes up we feel happy and when it goes down we feel unhappy.Sometimes we do not give due regards to facts also. That is the basic element in creating herd mentality. When there was short term upside how many os us thought that worst is over and its time to invest. Why , for the fear of beeing left out. When Market was at 2632 , how many of us though to enter. Not many. why, because for the fear of loosing more. We don't know to what extent market rise or fall . Why because we don't realyy assess the value of a stock and do pure momentum play , to borrow a phrase from TV.We believe others and doubt our own judgement. That is why we always look to others for tips. True that all knowledge is not available to a single individual and to that extent any decision will be based on partial knowldge and at best probabilistic.However , when we take uninformed decision based on herd mentality, we have to suffer the consequences.

The market failed to follow the DOW/NASDAQ for two days in a row and when both indices rose, ours fell. There were concern that we have run ahead of ourself and need to cool down. Let us think. This week is the culmination of all impornat event of Fed rate rise. Market has been anticipating 0.25% rise. Some where it was reported that 120 out of 122 surveyed economists expected 0.25% rise while hedge funds expected 0.5% rise. Last month it was general expectation of 0.25%. And this month suddenly stake was upped to 0.5%. If FED increse is on the expected line then market will rise or else it will fall since additional increase may not have been factored in.


Since FEDs are not telling anybody in advance we have host of analysts feeding on the expectations(they have to earn a living afterall, doing something out of nothing). This week Market is expected to remain volatile. Any sharp downward move will provide the opportunity to pick the best of the lot.

Now , people have started to think in terms of PE. dividend yield and PB ratio. So I have given some of thse values for NIFTY and SENSEX in previous post. If you think PE of 17 or 16 is high and 10-12 is reasonable then you have to wait for more correction. But you have to remember that PE or PB is a composite ratio which reflects earnings and CMP. You have to think of in terms of future outlook. FA is again in thing So study the stock and be ready.

Oil prices will fluctuate as always.It has gone up from 37 to 70 and above. Iraq crude is one leverage. Iran factor is another one. OPEC is legalised cartel controlling supply. Those countries which have substantial production would be largely insulated but not India as it imports 2/3rd of crude.ONGC, being premier organisation, has miserably failed in its responsibility .But then it does not matter(???) as long as we are able to source our supply. The world will continue like that. Inflation will also remain in place. Interest rate will rise and then fall and rise again.

Does this all mean that market will always fall and never rise as bears would have us believe. No , the volatality is part of market function of finding true value and we have to respect it . The question remains how far we go down. In my opinion all emerging markets have performed better than rest of the world. India will continue to do so. So our downside will be limited.
We are not so aware of the fact that low cost funding for developing countries are available in plenty and of late private sector is also allowed access to that. So interest rate rise may not pose a big problem for developmental and growth work. Speculation, yes. It will be less. Good for the market. Personally I don't feel happy to see someting rise 10 Times when normal rate of return is <40% only.



Dow and Nasdaq ended in green territory and hopefully this will keep the sentiments up. Arcelor deal will also have its impact as and when market decides to rise.


Ahmed. It is not my best efforts that keep the market up or down. I have just tried to put accross the factors which influence the market. Now with this downfall people have woken up to the reality that it is not a blind 100 mts race but a marathon.You have to factor in lot of things especially FIIs and global cues.Is it excessive to the point of obsession?? Do check yourself. They can make and break technical parameters including overbought/oversold macd rsi and what not.You just have to control those variables on a controoled selling or buying. For a market lacking depth , this is pretty easy to do when money is available in plenty. In any case they have used only 4% of their money. I am of firm opinion that this is not going to increase without hurting their own interest. In my previous posts I have given details of returns also.Mumbai Mirror was launched in Mumbai last year. I was in Mumbai for some work. Such news papers do look for sensationalism. Times Of India can not do on its own, being main stream newspaper. So they are doing it through Mumbai Mirror. While nothing is impossible, this seems pretty difficult and looks like interested comment of Morgan.

Believe in yourself and do your own analysis and keep track of FII and global cues. Remain invested for long term. Traders will always have opportunities irrespective of market direction. But investors will get opportunity to invest once in a while. It is very good to say thatsuch and such stocks are in my watch list and quite different to have it when it was low. I did it when everybody was screaming hard not to invest and I can tell you that all my LT has been good so far. I need not worry at all. If you invest with select picks after three years you may not regret it. Do follow your discipline.


Czar. After quites sometime you posted here. I am happy that you remided of your forecast. You will find me in the queue alongside yourself for good stocks even at that time. I remember telling somebody that I would buy a particular stcok, if it falls to the level mentioned by him or if it goes below the level mentioned by me. That stock never did. Not even now.

For Long term investors. I hope by thins time you would have your choices ready. Expect valatality this week. Direction will emerge only after end of June. A period of consolidation will be there when stocks will,be accumulated by the wise and strong. Don't let the opportunity go . TA is the way to indicate when to make an entry for individual stocks. FA is the way for selection of what to enter.

We have a long long way to go.

Pankaj:)
 
pkjha30 said:
EMs have delivered good returns on their own and if growth continues it will do so especially India and China is stated to be superhot with 9.4% expected growth rate which USA finds unpalatable and are pressurising China to take various steps to cool off its economy.

As for Monday's opening , that is not relevant since we are talking of long term. A few points here and there do not matter. In any case this is not a bear market so keep your list handy and wait for your opportunity to come.
I have a feeling that we might have wintnessed the bottom and now will witness consolidation where strong hands get in and week hands get out and slowly supply dwindle. After that stock shoots up. This period will be different for different and not a fixed point in time.

Pankaj:)
good call pankaj.the markets are evenly posed with a chance for take off.but select stocks may react , but this does not qualify for a bear market.Morgan Stanley may predict 6000 for sensex, so that they can average and make more profits, while we lose money.
bye
ravi
 

pkjha30

Well-Known Member
Hi vinsu and Ravi
This write up may be the result of hormonal response:D
I have noticed when we go down we are pummeled with negative views and when we go up, hope returns.In daily gryations of sensex we loose track of the larger picture. Unless the long term trend on yearly chart is conclusively broken we are not yet in bear market but just an opportunity to get in.
FIIs are one of the interested parties and with lot of money power. So they indulge in double speak. That includes Morgan stanlay. We must not forget one thing that they are equally corrupt or may be more as their scale of operation is different. They might loose track of what is ethical. Remember Arthur Anderson, PWC, even E&Y, worldcom, enron and what not.So what they say needs to be taken with a pinch of salt and loadsof scepticism. Annual returns of these buggers are more in EMs then in their own countries. Right now we are dependent on them for export etc. Our market it self is too big and will provide growth for years to come. They are all running to come here for the fear of being left out. This is a fact we have to see around us to recognise. My brother was telling me that Americans are now willing to work in that city , pay hefty amount for cheap hotels and endure the climate.
TCS and Infosys are recruiting Forigners in jobs where Indians used to work.The glass ceiling for Indians have been effectively broken now with Mittal acquiring arcelor It has immense symbolic value for an Indian.It shows the world that India is on growth path.We have to believe in ourself and we can create an opportunity in the downcycle.(Steel Industry world over was in dire strait few years ago when Mittal went to Indonesia.The rest, as they say, is a legend)

Have faith in our own ability.

Pankaj:)
 
pkjha30 said:
Hi vinsu and Ravi
This write up may be the result of hormonal response:D
I have noticed when we go down we are pummeled with negative views and when we go up, hope returns.In daily gryations of sensex we loose track of the larger picture. Unless the long term trend on yearly chart is conclusively broken we are not yet in bear market but just an opportunity to get in.
FIIs are one of the interested parties and with lot of money power. So they indulge in double speak. That includes Morgan stanlay. We must not forget one thing that they are equally corrupt or may be more as their scale of operation is different. They might loose track of what is ethical. Remember Arthur Anderson, PWC, even E&Y, worldcom, enron and what not.So what they say needs to be taken with a pinch of salt and loadsof scepticism. Annual returns of these buggers are more in EMs then in their own countries. Right now we are dependent on them for export etc. Our market it self is too big and will provide growth for years to come. They are all running to come here for the fear of being left out. This is a fact we have to see around us to recognise. My brother was telling me that Americans are now willing to work in that city , pay hefty amount for cheap hotels and endure the climate.
TCS and Infosys are recruiting Forigners in jobs where Indians used to work.The glass ceiling for Indians have been effectively broken now with Mittal acquiring arcelor It has immense symbolic value for an Indian.It shows the world that India is on growth path.We have to believe in ourself and we can create an opportunity in the downcycle.(Steel Industry world over was in dire strait few years ago when Mittal went to Indonesia.The rest, as they say, is a legend)

Have faith in our own ability.

Pankaj:)
Hi pankaj,
Thanks dada. I wanted to ask one technical query. Actually i wanted to know abt. MSM? what i hear is that when MSM is below 50 then start moving up then it should be considered a buying opportunity. Now MSM is below 50 but not moving up means still not a buying opportunity. below is the link u can see here
http://www.stocks.dlngroup.com/india/market-sentiment.php
Ur comment please dada.

wrgrds
Ahmed
 

pkjha30

Well-Known Member
Hi

Fortunately , most of the European and Asia-Pacific markets are chatring similar course.Highly volatile yet directionless trading. They are all behaving ,as if, to search for some direction. Mostly ,indices are in green but marginally so , having come off from the day's high and lows.The market has exhibited volatality and resilience so far.Among all indices sensex is showing signs of high degree of volatality.Sensex has jumped 320 points up and down today.Yet if it manages to close today above 10000 mark that will give it psychological advantage tomorrow and the day after. In addition to FED rate F&O expiry is also upon us. FIIs would decide if they want to take it higher or sink it further lower .

I was just thinking what if they sell another 7500 crs on net basis this month(they are in positive till date and three days to go.)The market will sink another 3000 points and bang the prediction of Nomura for sensex at 7000 will be fulfulled.

That means by another 30% tanking almost all stocks would have to bear the brunt and most of them would come to the leve of Jan 2005 or even below that.With 187501.00 crs of net investment would climb down to 18000 crs. But with 30% chopped off from the prices another 5400 crs will vanish without a trace.

Moreover , as investors are already cautious all stocks would hit lower circuits repeatedly(no buyers). For sensex and nifty stock such cushion may not be available. The fall will be greater. Morgan and their tribes will loose much more than 5400 crs.Retails may be out as they have burned their fingres. The strategy of FII seems to be first jack up the prices and on up momentum sell maximum and then resume normal operations at lower prices. If it is still too high , at least they have not given indication of sell off.

The marginal loss in value of portfolio due to impact cost of net sale for Rs. 7500 crs will be greater now than earlier. So such a thing may not happen.

So ,once anticipated events(ever present) are over we will give happy times to both trading and investing.

Pankaj:)
 

pkjha30

Well-Known Member
mahmeds2000 said:
Hi pankaj,
Thanks dada. I wanted to ask one technical query. Actually i wanted to know abt. MSM? what i hear is that when MSM is below 50 then start moving up then it should be considered a buying opportunity. Now MSM is below 50 but not moving up means still not a buying opportunity. below is the link u can see here
http://www.stocks.dlngroup.com/india/market-sentiment.php
Ur comment please dada.

wrgrds
Ahmed
Hi Ahmed

I am not the technical guy qualified to answer this query. But from what I saw is summed up below.

MSM tries to read the overall market sentiments by identifying number of positive set ups and the scale ranges from 0 to 400.Currently it is below 50 as stated by the site and not moving up. Clearly, market is not throwing up any positive signal on technical parameters.But a low score of below 50 also signifies that sentiments are at the rock bottom and will not move below much. It might be an indication of bottom building. So downside may not be much. As this process continues slowly , rest of the indicators will start picking up the positive signal and MSM will move up. This is a buy opportunity.

Now MSM could be applied to indices or to individual stocks. In bottom building ecerxice MSM of individual stocks will be more importan as overall sentiments turn neutral stock specific sentiments will go into positive territory. So buy signal will be thrown at different times for each stock.

I suspect that once FIIs and global cues are positive, MSM will slowly turn up giving buy signal.

Similar to this is one interesting concept :- Fatigue-O-meter. Who is wearying fast-bulls or bear. Bulls having long runs for three years are clearly exhausted and bears are fresh salivating with wild possibilities. So bearish sentiments will prevail keeping market depressed.

What do I think?There are no bull and bears in the current market.Only FIIs. If they decide to turn bear then we have it. Our retail participation is not such that to be able to withstand their onslaught. If they decide to turn bulls ,who's going to stop them. They have the muscle. We don't. If they are fighting among themself then it is a different issue. So far no evidence. All acting in unison. We don't have any desi bears at all . All are opportunistic clones.

In so far a MSM is just the outcome of all technical parameters, I wouldn't rely on it to read the real sentiments as technicals reflect market sentiments post-facto and not concurrently.MSM will suffer the same infirmities. If you keep too narrow a focus, like tick by tick chart or 5 miniute chart or hourly chart then it is good for that time frame only. We can not talk of general market sentiments.MSM will suffer or inherit all the defects from constituent indicators and may be magnified.

I found that The Hindu Businessline stopped giving technical advice for last one an half month.

Why? In extreme situations they don't seem to work properly as is true of any system based on certain assumptions which may not be valid in all situations.In extreme situations , factors causing it, FII and global cues , will be important in assessing overall sentiments and likely direction.

I request someone ,who is well versed in TA, to explain more on MSM as the above exposition would be inadequate.

Pankaj:)
 
pkjha30 said:
Hi Ahmed

I am not the technical guy qualified to answer this query. But from what I saw is summed up below.

MSM tries to read the overall market sentiments by identifying number of positive set ups and the scale ranges from 0 to 400.Currently it is below 50 as stated by the site and not moving up. Clearly, market is not throwing up any positive signal on technical parameters.But a low score of below 50 also signifies that sentiments are at the rock bottom and will not move below much. It might be an indication of bottom building. So downside may not be much. As this process continues slowly , rest of the indicators will start picking up the positive signal and MSM will move up. This is a buy opportunity.

Now MSM could be applied to indices or to individual stocks. In bottom building ecerxice MSM of individual stocks will be more importan as overall sentiments turn neutral stock specific sentiments will go into positive territory. So buy signal will be thrown at different times for each stock.

I suspect that once FIIs and global cues are positive, MSM will slowly turn up giving buy signal.

Similar to this is one interesting concept :- Fatigue-O-meter. Who is wearying fast-bulls or bear. Bulls having long runs for three years are clearly exhausted and bears are fresh salivating with wild possibilities. So bearish sentiments will prevail keeping market depressed.

What do I think?There are no bull and bears in the current market.Only FIIs. If they decide to turn bear then we have it. Our retail participation is not such that to be able to withstand their onslaught. If they decide to turn bulls ,who's going to stop them. They have the muscle. We don't. If they are fighting among themself then it is a different issue. So far no evidence. All acting in unison. We don't have any desi bears at all . All are opportunistic clones.

In so far a MSM is just the outcome of all technical parameters, I wouldn't rely on it to read the real sentiments as technicals reflect market sentiments post-facto and not concurrently.MSM will suffer the same infirmities. If you keep too narrow a focus, like tick by tick chart or 5 miniute chart or hourly chart then it is good for that time frame only. We can not talk of general market sentiments.MSM will suffer or inherit all the defects from constituent indicators and may be magnified.

I found that The Hindu Businessline stopped giving technical advice for last one an half month.

Why? In extreme situations they don't seem to work properly as is true of any system based on certain assumptions which may not be valid in all situations.In extreme situations , factors causing it, FII and global cues , will be important in assessing overall sentiments and likely direction.

I request someone ,who is well versed in TA, to explain more on MSM as the above exposition would be inadequate.

Pankaj:)
Thanks Dada,
This knowlege about MSM is enogh for me. Now i am wating for tommorow FED meeting. many of my retailor friend saying FII's know in advance that what is going to be decided in the meeting. all my friend are from last 10 year in the market and i am only from last 10 month and i have seen two correction and learning from here only.
Also i want to ask what is the current PE of the sensex and nifty?

Ahmed
 
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