SEBI's new move to cut retailers participation in F&O!

Right, you wont get any help from brokers..they will not do anything against SEBI......even BSE and NSE brokers forum are no use against SEBI and Govt...

Let the rules be defined and published, presently you have no cause of action for filing a petition against SEBI......a High Court or Supreme Court best legal experts dont come cheap, they charge upwards of Rs 1 Lakh per appearance so collect about Rs 25-30 L funds to fight the case. This amount is not big if traders nationwide participate in funds raising but organising them togather will be a task. Also prepare a back up team for supporting the paperwork preparing a plaint,sitting with lawyers,giving caselaw, remaining present at the court dates etc ,it all needs back up organisation. In SEBI tax case brokers gave a topmost lawyer of the country in 1992 who charged Rs 1 L per appearance and still they lost the case and worst still the court increased the tax incidence almost 5 times than what was originally proposed by SEBI..
Hmmm.....

But obvious as we are so fragmented, disorganized and extremely less in number, it shall be next to impossible to pull this together in all senses. Honestly, do we have the required time & money is the biggest question?

Instead first why not try to raise our concerns to SEBI - directly or indirectly through brokers - before they take their final call. If deeply thought SEBI's stance to protect Fetus-like newbie participants is justified, but, assuming the experienced retailers under the same hood is discriminatory.

Please share your thoughts on below process for allowing participation in the Derivatives segment (barring HNIs as anyways they will):
1. Those meeting the Net-worth/ITR, or,
2. By Certification, or,
3. By past trading records submitted by brokers showing the ability of an individual to trade.

Stipulating Certification won't be that challenging as the process is already in place. SEBI would just need to deem the required NSE certifications out of the available ones. Aspiring participants get themselves enrolled, appear for the exam, clear it and send a copy of the certificate to the broker, who will acknowledge and intimidate SEBI (or whomever concerned) about the same.

I think doing this will be win-win for both SEBI and Retail. As it will be based on either money-power or merit-power for participation in Derivatives. Those with money, takes the risk. Those without money but is accredited or by virtue of previous track-record, knows the risk.

Now it will be very childish on SEBI's part, if they cap the Cash segment too on the basis of Networth/ITR or Merit or whatever. If SEBI makes so stringent remarks then they should close the Exchanges.

Can't our brokers state this in their forums and amplify it to SEBI?

P.S. I am still at doubt, how SEBI or any regulator can step-in to define "Product Suitability" for its participants? It is the duty and the very work of the self-participant to figure that out based on their personal needs. On these grounds, these proposals are truly Non-Democratic and unconstitutional.

Bhaiya jaisa bhook vaisa khana! Ab subah 7 bajey chai ke sthan par Thali kisko acha lagega? Lekin agar main night duty karkey bhooka ghar lotun, tab Thali ke saath paanch aur rooti na chaba jaun.....Mujhey kya khana hain, kab khana hain, kitna khana hain yeh mere Society ka Secretary thik karega kya?
 
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niftytaurus

Well-Known Member
hi
I have previously expressed my views..I keep reading this thread & going through all posts..
Its really very unfortunate condition infront of us..I can also relate to pain of all new traders like afin bro,tradegyo etc... who has just started trading & want to gain financial freedom.
I can completelly understand condition & pain of them & can related to them..I have been also learning trading from scratch from last many years.I have also left my good salaried job long back..but when I sorted out my trading & now wants to increase my position size, this rule is going to appear.Without leverage, whats attraction in market?
I am also very disturbed from so many days by this rule..I am not able to concentrate on my trading & I have to stop trading.
Getting Networth certificate or even depositing 20 lacs rs to trading account will not be the solution.If small traders are not there, who will provide liquidity ..Real & very dangerous effect will be illiquid markets ..You can imagine what kind of markets & charts we will get to trade? even traders who can provide NETWORTH certificate, will be not able to trade profitabaly in those markets.
Real danger is "destroy of f& o market"..if you are option trader, then also it will not help..if future market is illiquid, how can we expect that options will give tradable moves...those prices will be more random..you can see any chart of illiquid scrips, you will come to know..can you trade that?
real problem will lies in market overall structure & drastic drop in liquidity & effects on charts
thanks
 

niftytaurus

Well-Known Member
hi
I even through some light on this extended timing also..its totalyl related to stop retails to trade & force all of them to put their surplus money into mutual fund..in covering of protacting retails, SEBI is helping mutual funds..mutual funds has a big lobby & they have lot of money..they have already lobbied to make those rules.
1) cash market will close at 3:30 pm & futures will be traded...think about it..take an example, As a retail trader, I buy reliance in cash market..I cant closed my position after 3:30 pm..& I am not able to buy /sell enough lots of futures( due to net worth exposure rule) ..so if any bad news happens after 3:30, HNI & DII & FIII all big boys can use that news, they can buy/sell futures/options & control their losses..but as a retail trader, I have to bear losses..I can not react on that news & cant do anything about that..but big boys can do..Itslike not providing same field to players..
2) two players are playing but retails traders are not allowed to use futures/options for their protection ..
after 2008 loss, people know now about power of shorting & importance of future /options ..so educated traders also can take short/long positions in future/options to use short opportunities.as we are not allowed to do short in cash markets..its simple As a retail trader, I am not allowed to do shorting ( as shorting only allowed in options /futures) ..so how retail trader can use shorting opportunities?
3) people who buy as a deliviery trade, can just see helplessly , that market is falling..& losses is mounting ..just see that FII,DII & HNI is selling & we retails traders are just seein helplessly market is falling..cant hedge our positions & use the opportunity of shorting..thats is totally unfortunate & unfair..
fellow traders ,think about this points ..If those all points implement..then its not worth risking to trade in market & worth spending time & money to do that business which we have learnt after years of struggle & hardwork..RIP TRADING PROFFESION ..its really unfortunate..
Thanks
 

niftytaurus

Well-Known Member
Hi
I even think about Trading in commodity..but this networth rule will be applied to commodity also.there is also a problem..nse will also trade commodity from oct1, how will it impact liquidity /volumes on MCX? thats another problem.lot of problems for a trader..I have never felt that much disappointed /depressed in my life .
nse will extended timing from oct1, it will definately effect the market & charts..imaging how all indicator show after a slow 5:30 to 11:30 market..this will be a new market & new chart will appear...how will market settle after those extended time..& when networth rule apply, how will be market be? how can we trade on those random outcome & situations..it would be very difficiult to trade in those situations..this 2018 will be difficult to trade any market..
thanks
 
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Smart_trade
 

headstrong007

----- Full-Time ----- Day-Trader
Maybe the stock market traders will turn to sports betting or online rummy :D. Delta corp shares will be a multibagger :D:D
Betting on horse racing is also legal in India. This may be an alternate way of earning. :troll:

But how to plot individual horse's activity/performance on charts? :confusedd: :DD
 
Betting on horse racing is also legal in India. This may be an alternate way of earning. :troll:

But how to plot individual horse's activity/performance on charts? :confusedd::DD
coin toss :p
 
Point 4.4.8: "Some of these individual investors may not be conversant with the risks associated with derivatives,"

SEBI is assuming things. Any "investor" who is on-boarded and is not conversant with the risks associated will be knocked out within the first few days. So there is no place for experience?

I noticed that SEBI calls everybody as "Investors". So there is no place for traders? I do not think that people dealing in derivatives are investors. They are "TRADERS". Please note that they are betting on something moving in some direction for some period. I would also call them "speculative traders".

Atleast the language of the said document is vague and casual in some places.

You can go on and on. But who is going to listen?

Need to focus on increasing trading capital from now on.
The language used is dry and circumspect, meaning that it is amenable to change and open interpretation any given time according to the demands of the situation. It an fall upon us like a ton of bricks if SEBI chooses to.

Like you said, increasing trading capital is what we can do.