SEBI's new move to cut retailers participation in F&O!

[headstrong007]

How many of you think that the worst is over in terms of such regulations which restrict retail traders' access to derivatives?

For all we know, the worst is behind us.

According to some disturbing latest reports, probably the worst is in front of us.

Today's report:-
View: Should direct equity investments be allowed?

https://economictimes.indiatimes.co...vestments-be-allowed/articleshow/65433299.cms

Last week report:-
SEBI plans to cap investors’ equity exposure in line with net worth.

https://m.economictimes.com/markets...e-with-net-worth/amp_articleshow/65381833.cms

***********
Here is the official SEBI plan to curb margins/retail participants:

https://www.sebi.gov.in/sebi_data/meetingfiles/apr-2018/1524050694434_1.pdf

 

[sridhga]

For some strange yet logical reason, I can identify with you. Back in 2007, when I was looking for a job, no one locally (in India) would hire me. That's when I decided to tap the freelance market and ended up looking at the US. That led to a fruitful independent career that lasted well into 2015.

In the past few days, since this SEBI situation surfaced, I've began dusting off my old contacts and freelance accounts. Logged into my Paypal account, it's still active. Logged into my freelance account, also active. I'm preparing for the worst case scenario.

I am in a similiar situation as your's. I relocated to India from the US in 2006. Now working as a freelancer besides trading. I am a qualified Chartered Accountant. However, several years in the USA (especially intitial formative years of career) did not prepare me for a proper career in India. Culturally, this is so different. Now, if this window is closed, what can I do? I started searching for jobs, freelance, or, otherwise. I hold CA Certificate of Practice currently. I am now just getting into a consulting assignment with an MNC for 4 months. I would report to Singapore and Australia. I hope to work hard on this assignment, and, convince them to make it long term. I carried back along with me, over 150 books from the USA during my relocation, and, all of them are related to the stock markets. I am deeply religious, and, India provides me closeness to the religious places that I visit very often. But financial opportunities which also uphold your self respect are hard to come by in this country. Atleast for me. However, I was happy trading every day for small profits in futures. I do not know if this door is going to be closed.

 

[afin]

That SEBI document was an atom bomb

I am in a similiar situation as your's. I relocated to India from the US in 2006. Now working as a freelancer besides trading. I am a qualified Chartered Accountant. However, several years in the USA (especially intitial formative years of career) did not prepare me for a proper career in India. Culturally, this is so different. Now, if this window is closed, what can I do? I started searching for jobs freelance, or, otherwise. I hold CA Certificate of Practice currently. I am now just getting into a consulting assignment with an MNC for 4 months. I would report to Singapore and Australia. I hope to work hard on this assignment and convince them to make it long term. I carried back over 150 books from USA and all of them are related to the stock markets. I am deeply religious and India provides me closeness to the religious places that I visit very often. But financial opportunities which also uphold your self respect are hard to come by in this country. Atleast for me. However, I was happy trading every day for small profits in futures. I do not know if this door is going to be closed.

Similar situation for me as well. I was all set to start on a PhD from a really top rated school. I have publications in academic journals which are ranked top 1 and 14 in the whole world (based on what we researchers call "impact factor", acceptance rates and the rigour of peer reviews), and I was not even a doctoral student. I have papers in conferences where PhDs and Post Docs die to get an access. For personal reasons I had to come back to India and inspite of having a somewhat close to stellar record, I had to start from 0. The pay is measly what I get here and there isn't any motivation due to a multitude of factors. Add to that the experiences after I came back to India don't count towards any great CV/ resume building really. This move has now moved the carpet from under my feet. It is not a pleasant situation to be.

 

[Smart_trade]

Govt is equally concerned for healthy development of capital markets. Healthy capital markets are in the interest of Govt"s divestment programmes...so Govt wont do any drastic step to kill the market as the market is also a source of revenue for them. There are smart people in Government too and the new norms may make markets more orderly and safe to trade......

Everything the Govt does is not bad....when badla was abolished, we traders thought that the market liquidity is finished but it actually increased many folds....when demat accounts were introduced, people thought that it wont work in country like India but dematerialisation is the best thing happened to the capital markets. The markets became much safer as I remember the risks we had in non demat transfers. When T+2 was introduces,traders thought that their business is finished but volumes increased many folds. Traders were even strongly opposed when the trading was computerised....but now we know that the old open outcry system was totally non transperent and now we cannot think of trading without computerisation. I have lived and prospered as a trader in all these evolutions...

So let the rules be announced ( and not based on discussion paper) , then we study them there will be a countrywide debate and we can put our views .....we even have legal remedy against the proposed rules if there is a need for the same.

Smart_trade

 

[NJ78]

I am in a similiar situation as your's. I relocated to India from the US in 2006. Now working as a freelancer besides trading. I am a qualified Chartered Accountant. However, several years in the USA (especially intitial formative years of career) did not prepare me for a proper career in India. Culturally, this is so different. Now, if this window is closed, what can I do? I started searching for jobs freelance, or, otherwise. I hold CA Certificate of Practice currently. I am now just getting into a consulting assignment with an MNC for 4 months. I would report to Singapore and Australia. I hope to work hard on this assignment and convince them to make it long term. I carried back along with me over 150 books from the USA during my relocation, and, all of them are related to the stock markets. I am deeply religious and India provides me closeness to the religious places that I visit very often. But financial opportunities which also uphold your self respect are hard to come by in this country. Atleast for me. However, I was happy trading every day for small profits in futures. I do not know if this door is going to be closed.

Yes, it's very different (and difficult) adjusting to contrasting cultures. Though professionally I found it very easy to work with US clients even in such contrasting states as ID & NJ. The only paperwork I remember submitting was a yearly W8-BEN form regarding taxes. Otherwise it was a smooth ride. They paid in time as long as they received the work in time. No Bush, Obama or Trump mattered. But now, SEBI is the one that (ironically & unfortunately) matters and this has put me in two minds. In the last two years, learning to trade has been my main focus. I have two financial dependents who are seniors closing in on 70. Considering all the news so far, I'm not very optimistic but still being positive.

 

[TraderGYO]

Govt is equally concerned for healthy development of capital markets. Healthy capital markets are in the interest of Govt"s divestment programmes...so Govt wont do any drastic step to kill the market as the market is also a source of revenue for them. There are smart people in Government too and the new norms may make markets more orderly and safe to trade......

Everything the Govt does is not bad....when badla was abolished, we traders thought that the market liquidity is finished but it actually increased many folds....when demat accounts were introduced, people thought that it wont work in country like India but dematerialisation is the best thing happened to the capital markets. The markets became much safer as I remember the risks we had in non demat transfers. When T+2 was introduces,traders thought that their business is finished but volumes increased many folds. Traders were even strongly opposed when the trading was computerised....but now we know that the old open outcry system was totally non transperent and now we cannot think of trading without computerisation. I have lived and prospered as a trader in all these evolutions...

So let the rules be announced ( and not based on discussion paper) , then we study them there will be a countrywide debate and we can put our views .....we even have legal remedy against the proposed rules if there is a need for the same.

Smart_trade

You are absolutely correct that we are discussing something that hasn't been finalized yet and yes, there are legal means available if the new laws turn out be outlandish. But I can not help but identifying myself with people like afin, NJ78 and every other aspiring small retail traders who have the financial responsibility of their families, who have worked hard to learn the art of trading and have a dream about a better future; and now suddenly find themselves hanging from a thin thread of Hope.
The past examples that you gave never threatened the right to do business on the ground of not having x amount of capital. When I read section 4.7 of the SEBI document I get the impression they are not even addressing the popular suggestions sincerely.
The anger that has lit up in the trading community is justified in my humble opinion.

 

[Loss_Lover]

According to some disturbing latest reports, probably the worst is in front of us.

Today's report:-
View: Should direct equity investments be allowed?

https://economictimes.indiatimes.co...vestments-be-allowed/articleshow/65433299.cms

Last week report:-
SEBI plans to cap investors’ equity exposure in line with net worth.

https://m.economictimes.com/markets...e-with-net-worth/amp_articleshow/65381833.cms

***********
Here is the official SEBI plan to curb margins/retail participants:

https://www.sebi.gov.in/sebi_data/meetingfiles/apr-2018/1524050694434_1.pdf

But how can we voice out and put it in SEBI’s ears? Here is a petition Against limiting exposure for traders in financial markets.

How about "Nation-wide Retail Trading Boycott"?

Brokers act as a medium between the Exchanges and the Participants. So, they need to actively support this trading boycott wherein mass-mailers should be circulated and put their shutters down. Yes, short-term revenue loss but long term resolution. And it would be in favor of Broker's best interests.

Every Retailer supporting this should get a forum to speak out and pen down every single concern - be it high STT, Insider trading, STCG/LTCG, Unrealistic huge Lot-size, etc. This needs to be then concisely presented to SEBI from the broker’s end and a rigorous realistic rationale discussion must take place between the Broker (representing the trading community) or market participants and the SEBI.

Let’s approach our Broker’s individually and see their response! Please keep the lights on during the weekends.

P.S.
BTW SEBI is giving example of SOPs followed in South Korea. South Korea is an emerging market, so is Pakistan (with the help of China). Why copy the rules followed in some other exchanges. India is India and the geo-political, socio-economical factors are unique to Her only. How dare Sarkari Chamchas compare our market to others - it only shows SEBI incompetencies (in the past SEBI plagiarized models of major US exchanges and today talking big on South Korea). Our market is functional and the heavy losses incurred by individuals in Derivatives section are notional to an individual which must be attributed as personal decision. How can you even think and come up with such stupidity?

What about them who overcame these barriers, hurdles; struggled hard, studied day-night, managed difficulties in life and thriving today for financial freedom?

*******************************************************

Sources:
https://tradingqna.com/t/sebi-plans-to-cap-our-margin-on-our-net-worth/44541
https://tradingqna.com/t/how-about-a-protest-strike-against-sebis-proposed-networth-decision/44672

 

[headstrong007]

Only Court can stop wrong decision taken by Government and their associates.

Supreme Court remains the pillar of Indian democracy.

*************

There are the Rights of Citizens:
I. Civil Rights:-
II. Economic Rights:-
III. Political Rights:



Under

I. Civil Rights:-

Right to Equality:

In a modern democratic state individual are granted the right to equality. Ho discrimination is done on the basis of religion, language, caste, sex, color and the like. Everyone is given EQUAL opportunity to develop.

Right to Justice:

To save the weak and the poor, right to get justice is also given. If this right is not given, many other rights also become meaningless. People are given the right to go to court for securing justice.

II. Economic Rights:

Right to Work:

Right to work is essential for the good living and the fulfillment of the various needs of the person. Every modern state tries to give the right to work to its people.

Right to Adequate Wages:

A person has the right not only to work but also the right to be paid adequate wages for his labour. For this purpose, state fixes minimum wages according to the quality and quantity of work. Wage is always regarded as a reward for the work done.

Right to Economic and Social Security:

In a modern welfare state, citizens are also given the right to economic and social security. State provides security in case of old age, sickness, unemployment etc. Most of the states give old age pensions, unemployment allowances, benefits of provident fund, financial helps during illnesses or accidents or natural calamities.


III. Political Rights:

Right to Criticise:

In a democratic state citizen also enjoy the right to criticise the politics of the government. It is through the exercise of this right that the government is made responsible.


Right to oppose the Government:

Citizens of a democratic, like India, have the right to oppose the government when it may fail to protect their interests. However, such a resistance has to be peaceful and by constitutional means. All these civil, economic and political rights are granted and guaranteed by the state, in fact by a democratic state, to all its citizens without any discrimination.



*************



We can individually fight the case easily. But SEBI will challenge it in Higher Court, higher benches.

So, it is better to fight together. So, I have shared the above mentioned (few pages above) whats app group by Avi Garg.
If anyone really affected must try to challenge it together. Bcoz Unity is Strength.

Together we can easily afford the best advocates in this country and teach SEBI(and associates) a good lesson.

 

[TraderGYO]

But how can we voice out and put it in SEBI’s ears? Here is a petition Against limiting exposure for traders in financial markets.

How about "Nation-wide Retail Trading Boycott"?

Brokers act as a medium between the Exchanges and the Participants. So, they need to actively support this trading boycott wherein mass-mailers should be circulated and put their shutters down. Yes, short-term revenue loss but long term resolution. And it would be in favor of Broker's best interests.

Every Retailer supporting this should get a forum to speak out and pen down every single concern - be it high STT, Insider trading, STCG/LTCG, Unrealistic huge Lot-size, etc. This needs to be then concisely presented to SEBI from the broker’s end and a rigorous realistic rationale discussion must take place between the Broker (representing the trading community) or market participants and the SEBI.

Let’s approach our Broker’s individually and see their response! Please keep the lights on during the weekends.

P.S.
BTW SEBI is giving example of SOPs followed in South Korea. South Korea is an emerging market, so is Pakistan (with the help of China). Why copy the rules followed in some other exchanges. India is India and the geo-political, socio-economical factors are unique to Her only. How dare Sarkari Chamchas compare our market to others - it only shows SEBI incompetencies (in the past SEBI plagiarized models of major US exchanges and today talking big on South Korea). Our market is functional and the heavy losses incurred by individuals in Derivatives section are notional to an individual which must be attributed as personal decision. How can you even think and come up with such stupidity?

What about them who overcame these barriers, hurdles; struggled hard, studied day-night, managed difficulties in life and thriving today for financial freedom?

This is the very difficulty of Democracy. It is utterly disgraceful that Indian legislation support Entropy (gradual decline into disorder) at the cost of penalizing the Efficient Workforce.

Sources:
https://tradingqna.com/t/sebi-plans-to-cap-our-margin-on-our-net-worth/44541
https://tradingqna.com/t/how-about-a-protest-strike-against-sebis-proposed-networth-decision/44672

I think ST da once wrote how once they planned a countrywide protest against imposition of SEBI tax(if I remember that correctly ). And the protest did not even last 1 hour. Brokers opened their shops one by one saying their international clients pressuring them.
So, an unorganized trading strike will not work and an organized trading strike is a pipe-dream.
Brokers have conflict of interest in this, they survive by sucking the blood of their clients. Traders have to fight this battle alone. @headstrong007 sir has shared a whatsapp group number here on this tread. You might want to join them.

 

[Tejas Khoday]

According to some disturbing latest reports, probably the worst is in front of us.

Today's report:-
View: Should direct equity investments be allowed?

https://economictimes.indiatimes.co...vestments-be-allowed/articleshow/65433299.cms

Last week report:-
SEBI plans to cap investors’ equity exposure in line with net worth.

https://m.economictimes.com/markets...e-with-net-worth/amp_articleshow/65381833.cms

***********
Here is the official SEBI plan to curb margins/retail participants:

https://www.sebi.gov.in/sebi_data/meetingfiles/apr-2018/1524050694434_1.pdf

1. This article is written by the CEO of Value Research. There is no new add-on information available here. Just commentary.

2. Plan to cap investors' equity exposure in line with net-worth is already factored in into the worst possible scenarios.

3. The white paper is something to ponder about. Let's see what happens.

What else?