SEBI's new move to cut retailers participation in F&O!

headstrong007

----- Full-Time ----- Day-Trader
Bombay HC seeks clarity on derivatives STT collection

The brokers’ lobby has moved court against Sebi and NSE for holding brokers responsible for collecting the STT on physical delivery of derivatives

https://www.livemint.com/Money/EUWP...ks-clarity-on-derivatives-STT-collection.html


The broker lobby’s contention in the matter is that there is currently no provision in the Finance Act to tax derivative trades on physical delivery.

Also, the ANMI feels that the exchange should not commence physical delivery in the F&O segment unless it issues legal indemnity to its members from any future claims made by the Centre for non-collection of STT on F&O delivery.

The genesis of the dispute lies in the NSE’s circular in April that had listed 46 stocks whose derivatives contracts result in physical delivery of shares.

There has been confusion both over the levy and the rate of STT that should be levied on these transactions as it involves various legs of trade, such as buying and selling in futures, and final settlement against delivery, where the entire amount has to be paid.
 

TradeJoker

Well-Known Member
In Recent days i observed that so called Zerodha winners, some experts on options ,self proclaimed super traders started there 1 day seminars..on
trading methods and roaming across india (sat and sun days) ...ealier they used to give speechs on spending weeks days with family and no time to talk on stock market all of sudden started this webinars :couchpotato: this means that they may have stopped trading or reduced to large extent..smelling this moves !!! :DD:DD
One of the famous astrologer predicted early this year, Kerala may not get enough rain this year, fortunately the army team rescued him him from flood.
 

TraderRavi

low risk profile
Is SEBI being a nanny to investors?

If the equity market is to mature, SEBI should stop shielding retail investors from risks by curbing their choices

India’s financial market regulators are often accused of focussing too much on the industries they regulate, while turning a blind eye to the plight of consumers.
But the Securities Exchange Board of India (SEBI) is an exception. Most of its regulatory tweaks and enforcement actions in recent years have been aimed at shielding investors from the misdoings of market participants. This has also won India high ranks for investor protection in the World Bank ratings.
Of late though, some of SEBI’s actions lead one to wonder if it is taking its zeal for investor protection too far.


Don’t do derivatives

The Indian stock market has been the victim of highly skewed growth in recent years with derivative trades now amounting to 15 times the trading in cash markets. A discussion paper by SEBI noted that equity derivative volumes leapfrogged nine times in the last 10 years, while cash volumes didn’t even double. Retail participation in futures and options is high (over 25 per cent) too, with individuals dabbling in risky trades such as options writing.

Expert committees, over the years, have offered many systemic solutions to address this skew: Raise margining requirements and lot sizes for derivatives, insist on all-cash margins, set a higher quality bar on stocks offered in F&O, promote stock lending, introduce physical settlement of derivatives, expand primary markets and so on.

But after implementing these selectively, SEBI has now latched on to a draconian idea to curb individual participation in F&O. It has recently suggested that all individual F&O traders present their Income Tax Returns to their broker, so that the broker can then enforce an ideal market exposure for each of them.

This has set the cat among pigeons in the trading community. A full-time trader, who quit his day-job years ago, says plaintively: “F&O trading is my profession. I chose to do this instead of being a lawyer, accountant or businessman. I am fully aware that I can make losses and it is very risky, but don’t all entrepreneurs take risks? My trading profits are treated as business income and I shell out a 30 per cent tax on it. I also pay multiple transaction taxes – STT, stamp duty. So how can the regulator tell me I shouldn’t pursue this business?”

Another investor asks: “How can income levels be a qualification to trade in the markets? I am a Chartered Accountant and have been trading with my own money for five years. I earn about ₹5 lakh a year. So, am I less qualified to trade than someone who runs a kirana store with a ₹2 crore turnover? Ask me to write a qualifying exam and see if I clear it!”

The angst is valid. To presume that all individual traders in F&O are gullible folks who need to be protected from the consequences of their own actions, is regressive. More so, as SEBI’s discussion paper puts the number of retail investors in F&O (5.7 lakh) at a fraction of the demat account holders (three crore). Over half of them also own large cash market exposures.

If SEBI wants to caution investors with poor loss-absorbing ability (such as students) from dabbling in derivatives, there are less intrusive ways of doing it. It can conduct boot camps in colleges on derivatives, conduct qualifying exams, require prior cash market experience or simply ask investors to self-declare their suitability.

But ideally, it should allow any individual, affluent or otherwise, to participate in F&O as long as he can cough up the required funds and doesn’t pose a counter-party risk. After all, market knowledge or trading skills cannot be acquired through earnings or textbooks; they come from real-world experience. From a market development perspective too, it would be healthier for SEBI to try and expand the cash market to catch up with derivatives, rather than shrink the latter.


MFs: Less is more

If the F&O proposal has traders in a tizzy, MF investors are currently scrambling to cope with SEBI’s recent rules on scheme categorisation, which have forced a ‘Ctrl Alt Del’ moment on the fund industry.

Earlier, if any fund house wanted to launch an open-end fund, it was free to choose between any style, market cap mix or theme of its choice, provided it avoided overlaps with its existing schemes.

In October 2017, the SEBI decided to simplify choices for retail investors by restricting the menu. It decided that fund houses could offer only 10 types of equity schemes, 16 types of debt schemes, six hybrid funds and two solution-based funds. To make schemes stick to their mandate, it laid down strict boundaries for every scheme type too.

Therefore, a large-cap fund must now compulsorily hold 80 per cent in the top 100 stocks, a mid-cap fund must own 65 per cent in the next 150 stocks and a focussed fund must own only 30 stocks etc. Managers have been asked to choose their large-cap and mid-cap stocks from an approved list, published every six months.

Star fund managers believe that the restricted shopping list will sharply curtail their ability to deliver alpha (outperformance) in the large and mid-cap funds.

AMCs are busy rejigging and merging their 800-odd open-end schemes, changing their names, mandates and portfolios to fit into the new pigeon-holes.

To newbie investors, these changes pose a challenge, because they render the past record of many popular schemes irrelevant. For long-time investors, this reboot means going back to the drawing board on portfolios.

One 55-year old quips: “This is like going to Saravana Bhavan and suddenly being told that I can only be served one type of dosa with one chutney, because someone thinks a ghee roast isn’t good for my digestion. I have good digestion, so why should I cut back?”


Mistakes help

While the SEBI’s keenness to simplify choices for first-time investors or enforce correct labelling is laudable, there are far simpler ways to achieve this. A vibrant passive fund industry is the best antidote to active MFs confusing investors with choices. Precise and quantifiable scheme mandates with penalties for deviation, can ensure truthful labelling.

But what’s wrong with the SEBI’s hard-line approach, if it helps protect the most vulnerable investors? Well, there are two disadvantages to framing regulations for the lowest common denominator.

It hurts market development and scale, deterring really large global players from entering India. For all the recent domestic interest in equities, let’s not forget that the Indian capital market is still at a nascent stage of development.

But even more important, it prevents retail folk from maturing as investors, by making mistakes. Ask a Charlie Munger or Rakesh Jhunjunwala how they made it big in the markets, and they will tell you that everything they learnt, is thanks to the school of hard knocks.

Cosseting retail investors by not allowing them to take risks, is akin to parents opting to keep their only child in primary school to protect her from brutal competition in the Board exams.

https://www.thehindubusinessline.co...eing-a-nanny-to-investors/article23515378.ece
 

jonty47

लहरों से डर कर नौका पार नहीं होती कोशिश करने वालों
Good read, seems all our hustle and bustle is making the right kind of noise and making media see our side of the story.

Unnessary meddling always ends in disaster.
Also if SEBI wants to safeguard uninformed investors from the kind of "24 lakh" losses, a better way would be to stop trading after a predetermined loss in a FY, maybe 2-4 lakh.
 

Satya.

Well-Known Member
i m worried nw @headstrong007 sir n @Smart_trade dada n @every small traders

i had 67,000rs wid zerodha,i withdrew all of it
i m sure sebi wont listen 2 any1 n its going 2 happen,so its a warning bell for all small traders lyk me
we r loss making traders,jst nw smhow I managed 2 learn 2 trade

i already faced worst internet connection in my area jst lyk @TraderRavi bhai n i missed many gud trdes.

ok,my q is now-
market is certainly going 2 b tough now & i cant put more money into trading..may b 1L more,so my trading capital will b 1.67L

shud i quit now luking at d uncertainity of d market? bcuz i m nt skilled enuf 2 pull big money like u guys
i'm jst an average trder,so i m worried
 

bpr

Well-Known Member
Good read, seems all our hustle and bustle is making the right kind of noise and making media see our side of the story.

Unnessary meddling always ends in disaster.
Also if SEBI wants to safeguard uninformed investors from the kind of "24 lakh" losses, a better way would be to stop trading after a predetermined loss in a FY, maybe 2-4 lakh.
the 24 lakh case is very unique is actually sebis and govts fault
because it allows to charge heavy stt to transactions going in for cash settlement.
First of all cash settlement should not charged high stt period. You need physical settlement to justify high STT.
Sebi fixed it by giving option to trader/broker to settle or not when they are in such situation where STT could be higher than profit.
Also probably the reason for introduction of physical settlement on stocks.
That is a good solution was only possible because the person raised the issue and fought for it.
Now sebi taking this example to implement itr/networth rule is just terrible.
 
i m worried nw @headstrong007 sir n @Smart_trade dada n @every small traders

i had 67,000rs wid zerodha,i withdrew all of it
i m sure sebi wont listen 2 any1 n its going 2 happen,so its a warning bell for all small traders lyk me
we r loss making traders,jst nw smhow I managed 2 learn 2 trade

i already faced worst internet connection in my area jst lyk @TraderRavi bhai n i missed many gud trdes.

ok,my q is now-
market is certainly going 2 b tough now & i cant put more money into trading..may b 1L more,so my trading capital will b 1.67L

shud i quit now luking at d uncertainity of d market? bcuz i m nt skilled enuf 2 pull big money like u guys
i'm jst an average trder,so i m worried
It is very difficult for anyone to tell you to continue or quit trading. You have been trading for more than 3 years and by your own admission you are still a loss making trader. So let the SEBI rules come and you see if you can continue trading. If you are confident in your own mind that you can trade profitably and if you have some other source of income to run your household expenses,then you can try trading for some more time.You can try trading in cash market and make small profits every day. Till SEBI rules come, continue trading in normal way.

Smart_trade
 
Just thinking about the worst case scenario, if retail traders are cut off from the market, how will it affect the markets and liquidity? I think it will depend upon what percentage of the total present turnover is made up by the retail traders.
If its curtains for us, it will be really very sad, to just throw away whatever we have learned so far, just because of the whims of somebody. I am feeling like a mere puppet. And for those who have given up their day jobs, it will be a nightmare. As of now, just lets wait for the day of the Bombing.

And this is the last nail in the coffin of my love and respect for Modi.
 
Last edited:
I don't think SEBI or Govt. will do such extreme thing. As far as I see, writing options would become more regulated.
As of now, we need to show IT or Bank Statement or Networth for trading in derivatives. This will continue, but more control on margins offered for selling/writing options would be enforced. This will be on Brokers and they would now need to ensure not everyone of their clients write options at will using margin money.
The brokers may be forced to provide varying leverage on F&O & Equity and not similar to "one slab for all kind" that is present today. Maybe a 10x flat on EQ but 1x to 5x on F&O based on whether the customer is buying or selling & on the solvency of the client.