Market Operators - Do they exist ? Who actually runs the show?

[Prabhjeet]

Aha ... Dow my dear Dow ....

How does one manipulate the Dow ? The Dow ... is a simpleton and not extremely difficult to manipulate (for a half an hour).

Alas ... the beauty of Dow is that the components are not weighted.
So, moving a stock like Goldman Sachs by $2, has the same effect as moving a stock like Citibank by $2.

Except, in percentage terms, to move GS takes only 1.5% upmove ... whereas to move C it takes 15% up move. Now, how difficult would it be to move GS by $2 on synchronized buying ?

So, when the synchronized buying sweep comes in after 2.30 pm ... guess what the move up first.

That is what I am asserting, big players can move prices to create spikes on 60 min , daily or shorter term charts but they cannot manipulate the weekly or monthly trends which show the overall direction of the markets

 

[NOMINDTR]

the beauty of Dow is that the components are not weighted.

Pathetic beauty

 

[AW10]

Aha ... Dow my dear Dow ....

How does one manipulate the Dow ? The Dow ... is a simpleton and not extremely difficult to manipulate (for a half an hour).

Alas ... the beauty of Dow is that the components are not weighted.
So, moving a stock like Goldman Sachs by $2, has the same effect as moving a stock like Citibank by $2.

Except, in percentage terms, to move GS takes only 1.5% upmove ... whereas to move C it takes 15% up move. Now, how difficult would it be to move GS by $2 on synchronized buying ?

So, when the synchronized buying sweep comes in after 2.30 pm ... guess what the move up first.

Currently heaviest stock in Dow is IBM carrrying around 8 to 9% of weight. Citi is at the bottom carry less then 1% weight due to poor market cap. So even if THEY shake anyparticular stock by 10% (which needs really big money to shake), they will be able to shake DOW only by (10% *10% = 1%)..

And moreover, smart money does not track only one index but carefully monitor other index as well.. So when DOW is showing movement but S&P and NASDAQ are not, that itself will be a good sign to be careful and discount the move. And who knows, another biggy might come and start shorting DOW because they see non-cordinated move here which gives them good opportunity.

For our mkt, if all NIFTY biggies like RIL, SBI, ICICI, ONGC, NTPC are not showing synchronised move, NIFTY struggles to make big move.

IMO, even big money can't shake index so much as they can shake individual stock and even if that is the case, it is not impossible to get unnoticed on chart/ Level 2 data/ mkt breadth, inter-market analysis.

Happy Trading.

 

[karthikmarar]

It is not scientifically, logically possible to manipulate an Index, considering how the index is professionally maintained these days. IMO, this applies good for Nifty.

Weighted indices can be Managed if not manipulated. Select a few biggies like Reliance and maintance a positive bias on the index while selling across the broader market. Index watchers are happy that the inex has gone up when in reality there has been lot of selling all around. we can see happen on the nifty rather frequently.

 

[prasadam]

Weighted indices can be Managed if not manipulated. Select a few biggies like Reliance and maintance a positive bias on the index while selling across the broader market. Index watchers are happy that the inex has gone up when in reality there has been lot of selling all around. we can see happen on the nifty rather frequently.

Well said Karthik.

Anybody in doubt see the moment of RIL/NTPC & Nifty Vs other stocks during Jan.

Or simply see price moment on settlement day.

As prabhu rightly said, big players can move prices to create spikes on 60 min, daily or shorter term charts but they cannot manipulate the weekly or monthly trends.

 

[sudoku1]

mkt operaters do exist in the system.....every operater has his choice of scrips & strategy.........sometimes even the operaters r caught in a horrible situation when rival camp smells their positions

 

[NOMINDTR]

Weighted indices can be Managed if not manipulated. Select a few biggies like Reliance and maintance a positive bias on the index while selling across the broader market.

Dear Karthik,

I am afraid I do not understand

 

[sudoku1]

Dear Karthik,

I am afraid I do not understand

ystrdays mkt is a good e.g of index management while thrashing side counters.....

 

[NOMINDTR]

ystrdays mkt is a good e.g of index management while thrashing side counters.....

A good benchmark index is what reflects underlying assets. I worry, we can not have an index that shows the direction of every scrip. And I am bit slow to understand the term "management"

 

[orderflow13]

mkt operaters do exist in the system.....every operater has his choice of scrips & strategy.........sometimes even the operaters r caught in a horrible situation when rival camp smells their positions

Well said Karthik.

As prabhu rightly said, big players can move prices to create spikes on 60 min, daily or shorter term charts but they cannot manipulate the weekly or monthly trends.

cant agree more than this
to find footprints of smart money option data along with open interest is very helpful as long as index is concerned...good conversation going hope we get more towards how to track what so called smart money is doing ..so far vsa, market profile, option writing are keywords which try to figure out tracings of smart money expecting more ideas with single aim MONEY
all the best
Alex