I will give you a surprise

[DanPickUp]

Hi

Todays post has nothing to do with TA. Check this link: http://www.tharptradertest.com/default.aspx?question=1

It was posted from AW10 here : http://www.traderji.com/trading-psychology/43378-building-traders-psychology-5.html#post563910 and I think, most have not recognized it, as it is in the psychology part from this forum. Nice exercise to test what we know about us and about trading.

If you like the test, give the thanks to AW10 and not to this post, as it was him which brought it to this forum. Thank you and thanks to AW10 to show this link in this forum.

Tc and do some sport to keep your buddy in healthy conditions.

DanPickUp

 

[summasumma]

Hi

Summa, that is a huge post. I will go through it point by point.

1. Knowing how many legs are used for a strategy is not enough to trade them successfully. You have to know the options greeks to trade multiple leg strategies. The options greeks have little effect on a credit spread but can have a huge effect on a back spread.

2. Option express is a good tool to start to test and play with different option strategies. Option express was mentioned to me in 2005 in Singapore in a seminar about diagonal spreads on the S&P 500. As I do not trade options on stocks, only options on futures and futures, this tool did not take much effect on me. As far as I know, today they also give the possibility to trade options on some futures.

In Indian you not can trade options on commodity futures. You only can trade them on stocks and Nifty. Correct me, if I am wrong.

Probability is only math and does not include the reality, which can bang you heavily when hit at the wrong moment in the wrong trade. Do not start to think that you are in a safe harbor when using this tool. It is a good tool and I use it very often, but I do not count on it as the Holy Grail.

I am not clear what you mean with that: And also it helps in deciding what kind of repair I should do in my position if I enter into my LOSS zone.

Could you elaborate on that or give an idea, what it does give you? Does it say you have to take this and this position, what repairs are, or what does it say to you personally?

3 That is part of the option Greeks and is called VEGA. Vega has little effect on credit spreads and huge effect on back spreads. If you want to trade options, you have to know the option greeks like your trouser pockets. This is a must !!

4 Ok, but not ok.

5 Very important for position trading, as you will have to know what price you plan to pay for an option at a certain level under certain conditions. Minimum knowledge then is to know, how to place such orders and then we are back in point 4. You will not be able to trade your idea when you not know the details about your order possibilities.

6 Ok.

7 If market goes up and you sell a put above the strike you buy a put, that is ok. It is also ok to sell the credit spread when your sold options get in the money.

By the way: How do you want to that? This you have to explain in details, as this is a key to not sit always in front of your laptop. If you fail with that, how much will you have to pay for your loss? Here we already come to point
eight, as this has to do with your MM.

8 Good ideas, but I not can see and detailed plan here. How much do you want to risk in numbers or in % and how has this to be done?

9 What ever you like here, as this is your personal choice.

10 Do some sport you can do every where. Why ? If you travel and you may not have a swimming pool or a fitness center, what you do ?

Dancing is nice. I had once a girl friend with a mother which was a dancing teacher. Salsa. rumba, tscha tscha, fox trot and how ever those dances was called, we did every thing. After that I went to a dancing school for rock,n roll. There you had to be fit, wow. Any way, we all get older and discipline calls in to make us doing some sport.

11 Keep going on and think positive. Go your way and if it gets rough, do not give up.

Some words from my side about your situation you are in now, as you explain it in the last post: Enjoying a full time job, which has nothing to do with trading and enjoying trading at the same moment needs special strategies and a psyche which can handle that. You may explain, what kind of time frame you want to trade to master this two things at the same time.

Another thing I may mention here: It is not the platform which has to recognize any strategy; it is you which has to have them in your head to trade them non independently. It is you, which make your trades powerful and not any ideas from any platform. I use such ideas to see, what others will trade, so I do some other stuff. I am clear, that this is a long way to ever come there and that is surely one of the more difficult levels you ever can reach by continuing your search and learning about the world of option strategies and how to trade them.

As always, ask and I will try to give some ideas and answers. Later on, I will continue with S&R, but we have time.

Tc and do some sport to keep your buddy in healthy conditions.

DanPickUp

Thanks a lot Dan for the detailed reply. Its helps as input for me to plan for my trading. I will ask more queries and continue from this lateron.
I will try to fill the gaps mentioned by you meanwhile.

Please continue with S&R as many people must be following this thread and waiting for your next update. I dont want to deviate the topic with continuous queries also...

Thanks,
...summasumma

 

[EagleOne]

Danny boy
I have read Van Tharp critically. To me, like Mark Douglas, he is more of Oprah Show material. That is: all marketing fluff, not much substance. And this test of his - if you knew 1/100th of Psychology that I know, you would have laughed at this marketing ploy!

Rather, in his post to Kevin, AW10 came across more intelligent, more honest, more down-to-earth guy.

Take these American traders' Pies with a pinch of salt!


Please continue with your S & R thing. Take care

Hi

Todays post has nothing to do with TA. Check this link: http://www.tharptradertest.com/default.aspx?question=1

It was posted from AW10 here : http://www.traderji.com/trading-psychology/43378-building-traders-psychology-5.html#post563910 and I think, most have not recognized it, as it is in the psychology part from this forum. Nice exercise to test what we know about us and about trading.

If you like the test, give the thanks to AW10 and not to this post, as it was him which brought it to this forum. Thank you and thanks to AW10 to show this link in this forum.

Tc and do some sport to keep your buddy in healthy conditions.

DanPickUp

 

[tnsn2345]

Dear Dan,

An interesting statement indeed !!!

I look forward to your writings and you permitting would like to play "Devil's advocate". If my post is premature, please ignore / suggest otherwise.

Let the show (surprise) begin...

Regards,

Dear Dan,

Indeed this was a surprise for me, for me having not used PNF charts ever. Though I had read about it years ago when I started trading, was never felt like love at first sight as what CS charts did. On the contrary it was like eeerrkkk. So not much I could critically comment.

You make it sound like ignorance is bliss.

When someone dangles something new in front of ur eyes, your eyes should lit up and mind should go on a knowledge hunt. Google, Investigate and find out as much as u can about it. Traders learn by theory of elimination.

let me give u a start.... this is nifty's PnF chart...!

The answer is in the statement itself highlighted in bold - learn by theory of elimination. So one may conveniently eliminate this one too.

a nice thread on p&f.thanks to dan,linkon,aw10.
...............................................................
p&f is good to see pure price action.Very strong S/R based trader use only 2action .....
sell at known resistance or breakdown of support. BUY at known support or break out of resistance.
Both can be seen clearly in weekly chart , can u know easily known resistance/support?
Now u know the set up, just simply switch to hr-chart........p & f.......of same thing. pl trade directionally on those known support/resistance .
Key thing it gives high accuracy trade.
FOR CRITIQUE : u dont have to learn it , u may be already doing it from candlestick/line chart............if u have +ive return system ,dont bother for p&f. Learn pivot.......MOB
regards

My friend Oilman, put the critic in CAPS, but still got bashing from Dan to the permissible extent of words that can be used on this forum.

Oilman5

Did you use your brain when you wrote your last post ?

Specially your last line.

You never ever traded successfully P&F, other wise you would not write such rubbish. And you know exactly what I mean with that.

You made me really angry with the rubbish you posted.

Do not post again such rubbish in this thread

Thank you

And last but not the least I am now having some purpose to visit this thread as I see some good and meaningful posts on Options strategies. Nevertheless, if you can get the direction of the UL right, just the basic options strategies are good enough. So putting more effort to 'get' the direction right is prudent than to putting effort in creating complex web of legs, hands, of the setups. Exiting at the end of holding period (or at stoploss as you all define) is good enough incase your desired movement in the UL does not happen.

Regards,

- Devil's advocate for this thread (assuming permission granted for the same basis Dan's Thanks to my first post on this thread)

p.s. Dear Dan, get well soon. (BTW pun not intended...ref: Munnabhai)

 

[AW10]

Danny boy
I have read Van Tharp critically. To me, like Mark Douglas, he is more of Oprah Show material. That is: all marketing fluff, not much substance. And this test of his - if you knew 1/100th of Psychology that I know, you would have laughed at this marketing ploy!

Rather, in his post to Kevin, AW10 came across more intelligent, more honest, more down-to-earth guy.

Take these American traders' Pies with a pinch of salt!


Please continue with your S & R thing. Take care

Eagleone, I partially agree with you. As a mature learner, we need to discount the learnings from others.
In my trading, I have taken bits and pieces from various people and made the foundation of trading. I majority of foundation material comes from Van Tharp cause I found him addressing the core of trading rather than focusing on TA, system etc alone.

While learning, I focus on what I can get from the person (irrespective of all the -ives about him/her that I have heard). Cause no one is 100% perfect. Everyone has their other objectives too in mind, and I guess nothing wrong with it.
The trader's test is one such good input that I found from him. I have taken few other tests too. If you know of some good trader's personality test then please do share that with us here.I am willing to explore it.

It is rare to find, someone whom we can follow 100%. Maybe at early stage of trading, it is possible, but as we mature, it is very likely that we will collect more input from many other people.

Note - I am not trying to defend Van or me following him, but just sharing my views.
happy trading

 

[DanPickUp]

Hi

Summa: Post you queries when ever you feel or get stuck. We have enough time and as I see, others are also interested in such subjects. TA and option trading can be combined very well like futures and TA can be combined very well. What about TA combined with options and futures in one strategy ? But as I told, I will not recommend or mention such stuff. Just to give you an idea, that there is much more to find out and that is stuff you may not can imagine. Do not let get your self confused, if some body talks like such kind of strategies do not exist. Stay positive as such stuff is traded from certain pros day by day in day trading.

EagleOne: You are right about looking at such tests with some distance or like you and AW10 call it: With a pinch of salt. I would say, I am aware about that and I thought it is naturalness to the readers or the once which like to make such test.

Even than I have to say, that there is also a strong pinch of verity in the test AW10 has mentioned. I think, the difficulty is to see this peaces in such test and use or think about it in the right way. This may has to do with live and trading experience and as more as we have from it, as easier it gets to separate the wheat from the chaff.

Tnsn2345: Thanks for your last part of the post. As you say: Recognizing the direction of the UL ( Under lying like stock or future ) is quit important for certain option strategies.

Would you mind to explain your thoughts about this statement: "Just the basic options strategies are good enough"?

An other statement of you would may need some explanation from your side for more advanced strategic option and future traders : "So putting more effort to 'get' the direction right is prudent than to putting effort in creating complex web of legs, hands, of the setups".

And the last one: "Exiting at the end of holding period (or at stop/loss as you all define) is good enough in case your desired movement in the UL does not happen". I may ask: Who is all and what can we do to keep our options after the end of holding period?

By the way: You do not have to prove any thing here. If you like the thread, so enjoy it and if you like a post or want to post what ever in a positive way: You are more than welcome here, include your friends.

Tc and do some sport to keep your buddy in healthy conditions.

DanPickUp

 

[DanPickUp]

Hi

S&R on slide zone and breakouts. Any pictures from any markets from any body on any time frame which show that ? Please post it, as it will help others. I am clear that there is post around which mentioned such stuff. Why not trade some new experience, what ever it is?

DanPickUp

 

[EagleOne]

AW10
If you found Van Tharp's writings of any help. Great!
But I found them boring. Now you won't sue me for that, will you?
Personally, I don't like people using rhetoric to put across their thoughts, or try to simplify things which are already simple. I like authors who try to figure simplicity out of seemingly complex and confusing things, and state as simply. Thomas DeMark, Jake Bernstein are just a couple that come to my mind. Many people think they are boring! Personal choices, right?

BTW, the very question of testing Trader's personality through some kind of a dubious test, to me, is meaningless. Anyone who claims to have developed such a test is a marketing thug. There is no such thing as exclusive as trader's personality. It is one's own personality shaped by one's background, once education (not only of the college etc), one's way of thinking, one's problem solving abilities in general, that eventually align through hit and trial and make one a good trader. Anything else, howsoever high sounding or academic, is a cut-n-paste hogwash.

My observations. Nothing to argue.

Anyway, I like the way you so patiently, so gentlemanly, put your point across. Congratulations. I seldom like people.

Eagleone, I partially agree with you. As a mature learner, we need to discount the learnings from others.
In my trading, I have taken bits and pieces from various people and made the foundation of trading. I majority of foundation material comes from Van Tharp cause I found him addressing the core of trading rather than focusing on TA, system etc alone.

While learning, I focus on what I can get from the person (irrespective of all the -ives about him/her that I have heard). Cause no one is 100% perfect. Everyone has their other objectives too in mind, and I guess nothing wrong with it.
The trader's test is one such good input that I found from him. I have taken few other tests too. If you know of some good trader's personality test then please do share that with us here.I am willing to explore it.

It is rare to find, someone whom we can follow 100%. Maybe at early stage of trading, it is possible, but as we mature, it is very likely that we will collect more input from many other people.

Note - I am not trying to defend Van or me following him, but just sharing my views.
happy trading

 

[EagleOne]

Hi

You also can trade only this trend lines, as there is no fix rule on the angels :

DanPickUp

Danny boy
I am surprised to notice that this 3rd July post of yours got all the acknowledgements but no discussion on 'How or Why'. I mean, personally, I would be very careful to trade this sort of low-angled channel. In my experience, this sort of channel is a mark of silent accumulation or distribution, and it can sit for hours/days without getting much movement as bull-bear volatility keeps playing the balancing act. During the best of times, you have the 'jump the creek' kind of breakout on the upside. During the worst of times, it becomes the 8th floor from where the scrip jumps to its death!

Recent examples: Herohonda, DFL and GTL...to name a few.

Yours, and other traders', thoughts and observations are welcome to further this discussion.

Have a nice weekend, buddy

 

[EagleOne]

Hi

S&R on slide zone and breakouts. Any pictures from any markets from any body on any time frame which show that ? Please post it, as it will help others. I am clear that there is post around which mentioned such stuff. Why not trade some new experience, what ever it is?

DanPickUp

I hope, Danny, I understood your requirement correctly.
So here is monthly chart of a company that has been trading since April 2009 within the range of a single bar made during Sept-Oct 2007. I will leave it to your expertise to interpret on your thread its S&R, its consistent low highs, almost flat lows, vol, stochs etc to say whether it'd been sliding or not - or how and why it broke out on the lower side.

All I say is this: Looking at this beauty 3 months ago saved me 30k!