How much profit does a Full-time trader deserves in a Month?
- Thread starter soft_trader
- Start date
Hi,
In my hometown, I had many friends who had just started their career in stock market. I had not disclosed my mishappening with anybodyelse but at a party I told to a friend that I had 20000 shares of JP Ind. @ 9.80 (which were still lying at Broker). So I asked him about its current price. I had mentally booked loss @ 9.80 and thought since it had come down from 60/- so it might go to 20-25 rupees. So it will be better to wait for some time. Now after that unexpected profit, I was mentally a bit relaxed. In the nextday, my friend said JP was quoting at 13/- (before it was quoting between 10-11.50). So it also gave me some confidence.
After 15 days I came back to Delhi and discussed the current status of JP Ind with my broker. He told me he had the news of 30/- within next 2-3 month timeframe. In fact within the next 15-20 days JP Ind touched 19/- rupees. So I thought, it will be better to wait for a month and dispose all shares around 25/-. By thinking so, I did not trade for next one month. But contrast to my belief, JP Ind had come down to 12/- in the next 10 days. In fact, I literally cried for not selling at 19/-. But in the next 15 days, it again touched 17/- rupees and I finally sold all at NSE at 16/- per share. I had realised 3,17,000/- after deducting brokerage. Now I had to pay 2,85,000/- to my broker to settle all my dues. I felt better than the previous situation and thought seriously about day trading. At that time there were no Tips (market call) services. So I subscribed to Dalal Street Flash News for short- term trading as I was completely ignorant of charting. It was a weekly news letter and I subscribed for six months. It published on every Sunday's evening but to my disbelief I received it around Thursday by post. So in the next one month, in fact I incurred a loss of 25,000/- rupees in trading because of that news letter and I completely lost faith from that news letter. The subscription of that news letter cost me around 25,000/- rupees which was a complete waste. Now 50,000/- loss in month put me in great pressure. I even couldn't able to concentrate in anything. First time I saw some charts in Dalal Street Flash News although I could not understand them. In the meantime, I saw a person at the broker's office who was always looking at market depth screen and always asked the dealer to show (Shift + F10) in NEAT terminal. Initially I could not understand this but gradually I asked the dealer about (shift + F10), he told me this was the Hourly movement of that particular scrip. After gazing for sometimes I could not able to draw any conclusion since every day that data had been changing. One day, I asked that person regarding (Shift + F10). He told me " Chart banao sab samajh main aa jayega". In fact I did not know how to draw charts. One of my dealer friend casually said just buy a graph paper & plot the price. I took that line very seriously and immediately bought a graph book from the market. From the next day I started to collect the market movement data of 5 scrips. After plotting for 7-8 days, things started to get clear. These were only bar charts without opening and closing prices. It was the hourly range. Since there was only one goal in my mind to repay all the dues of my broker as soon as possible. At this point of time, I had around 1,00,000/- as balance. So after plotting for 10 days, these graphs fascinated me very much. I started to gaze these charts for hours in my room. Finally I requested that person to give me some past datas. After some initial hesitation, he gave me past 60 days data of 5 scrips for 1000/- rupees. I had to write those datas from his diary. For that purpose I had to go to his home.
Although I was very raw in the market, but at the same time I started to understand the mechanism slowly. First I noticed that when a move (upward or downward) started it lasted for 6-7 bars. In those six-seven bars, not a single bar breaks the low of the previous bar in an uptrend and no bar breaks the high of its previous bar in case of down trend. The most important thing that I noticed was the last bar (range) which was biggest among these six or seven bars. After that bar the trend reversed almost 80% times. Now the biggest mystery was how to find that trend.
Till then
With Best Wishes
Good Bye
In my hometown, I had many friends who had just started their career in stock market. I had not disclosed my mishappening with anybodyelse but at a party I told to a friend that I had 20000 shares of JP Ind. @ 9.80 (which were still lying at Broker). So I asked him about its current price. I had mentally booked loss @ 9.80 and thought since it had come down from 60/- so it might go to 20-25 rupees. So it will be better to wait for some time. Now after that unexpected profit, I was mentally a bit relaxed. In the nextday, my friend said JP was quoting at 13/- (before it was quoting between 10-11.50). So it also gave me some confidence.
After 15 days I came back to Delhi and discussed the current status of JP Ind with my broker. He told me he had the news of 30/- within next 2-3 month timeframe. In fact within the next 15-20 days JP Ind touched 19/- rupees. So I thought, it will be better to wait for a month and dispose all shares around 25/-. By thinking so, I did not trade for next one month. But contrast to my belief, JP Ind had come down to 12/- in the next 10 days. In fact, I literally cried for not selling at 19/-. But in the next 15 days, it again touched 17/- rupees and I finally sold all at NSE at 16/- per share. I had realised 3,17,000/- after deducting brokerage. Now I had to pay 2,85,000/- to my broker to settle all my dues. I felt better than the previous situation and thought seriously about day trading. At that time there were no Tips (market call) services. So I subscribed to Dalal Street Flash News for short- term trading as I was completely ignorant of charting. It was a weekly news letter and I subscribed for six months. It published on every Sunday's evening but to my disbelief I received it around Thursday by post. So in the next one month, in fact I incurred a loss of 25,000/- rupees in trading because of that news letter and I completely lost faith from that news letter. The subscription of that news letter cost me around 25,000/- rupees which was a complete waste. Now 50,000/- loss in month put me in great pressure. I even couldn't able to concentrate in anything. First time I saw some charts in Dalal Street Flash News although I could not understand them. In the meantime, I saw a person at the broker's office who was always looking at market depth screen and always asked the dealer to show (Shift + F10) in NEAT terminal. Initially I could not understand this but gradually I asked the dealer about (shift + F10), he told me this was the Hourly movement of that particular scrip. After gazing for sometimes I could not able to draw any conclusion since every day that data had been changing. One day, I asked that person regarding (Shift + F10). He told me " Chart banao sab samajh main aa jayega". In fact I did not know how to draw charts. One of my dealer friend casually said just buy a graph paper & plot the price. I took that line very seriously and immediately bought a graph book from the market. From the next day I started to collect the market movement data of 5 scrips. After plotting for 7-8 days, things started to get clear. These were only bar charts without opening and closing prices. It was the hourly range. Since there was only one goal in my mind to repay all the dues of my broker as soon as possible. At this point of time, I had around 1,00,000/- as balance. So after plotting for 10 days, these graphs fascinated me very much. I started to gaze these charts for hours in my room. Finally I requested that person to give me some past datas. After some initial hesitation, he gave me past 60 days data of 5 scrips for 1000/- rupees. I had to write those datas from his diary. For that purpose I had to go to his home.
Although I was very raw in the market, but at the same time I started to understand the mechanism slowly. First I noticed that when a move (upward or downward) started it lasted for 6-7 bars. In those six-seven bars, not a single bar breaks the low of the previous bar in an uptrend and no bar breaks the high of its previous bar in case of down trend. The most important thing that I noticed was the last bar (range) which was biggest among these six or seven bars. After that bar the trend reversed almost 80% times. Now the biggest mystery was how to find that trend.
Till then
With Best Wishes
Good Bye
Hi,
Now I started to plot charts on graph paper and the picture was getting clearer. With my recent findings, I wanted to trade. I thought it was better to have some logic behind every trade. At the same time, I knew that I had to make profit and my capital should be intact which was very very difficult.
Anyway on that belief, I decided that my entry will be in third bar and the target will be the first 15 minutes of the sixth bar (whatever the rate it is). In adverse case, I will exit at the low of the first bar. On that theory, my first two entries (long positions) netted me a profit of 3000/- rupees. It gave me tremendous confidence. But to my disbelief, my next three to four trades were landed me in a net loss of 5000/- rupees. On the other hand, I had to pay around 3000/- as monthly interest to my broker. For my monthly expenses, I was completely dependent on my father but gradually I found pressure from my home to do something. So I was in a depressed condition. Some of my friend's in Delhi (who knew my situation) advised me to forget about my commitment, go back to my home and started something afresh there. But there was a guilty feeling in my mind and thought I had cheated somebody (my broker). In fact, at that moment I was completely mentally weak. I just wanted to get away from this situation but I didn't have any way (Yes, there was a way - That was to tell the truth to my father which I didn't). So I decided to continue. From the present perspective, I think it was a foolish decision.
Now I again analysed the situation and thought since the trend reversed from sixth or seventh bar 80% of time so I decided to go for counter trend trading. My initial parameter were I would enter in the last one-two minute of the seventh bar, in case of adverse movement, I would close the position at the end of the ninth bar (if its low/high is lower/higher than the eighth bar.). At those time one can carry forward a position (long/short) to the next settlement through a mechanism called ALBM (Automated Lending and Borrowing Mechanism) which was started by NSE. On that basis I initiated a short position in 200 ITC shares. But unfortunately, in the next two hour I lost 8000/- rupees. Later I came to know that it was a result day for ITC. Anyway, with frustration I came to my room and started analysing my situation. Finally I decided that this trade might belong to those 20% failure rate category. Then I went for a long position. Again to my disbelief, the trade went against me and there was a huge eighth bar but the price just started to reverse back. I wait patiently and luckly there was no ninth bar low and I closed the position at cost because of my nervousness. After that trade I stopped for two to three days and try to get focused again. My next trade was short 300 shares of Satyam. This trade gave me a profit of 12000/-. But in the subsequent trading, I could not make any gain. Now I analysed the entire situation and my findings were
1. I had only datas of 5 scrips (Reliance, BHEL, ITC, TATA TEA and Satyam), so I had limited no. of choices.
2. Since I analysed on hourly chart, so a signal comes after 4-5 days. On that basis the total number of trades I could do is 4-5 trades per month.
3. As per my capital I only took one position at a time.
4. When a trend started, almost all 5 scrips follow the trend but after 3 bars, only one or two scrips follow the trend but the rest either reversed the trend or went into sideways mode.
Now I had only one option i.e. to take position in all scrips. But my capital did not permit such type of trading. So for me it was completely a multiple question - answer type situation. That means I had to device some other method of trading.
Now have patience for my next roller coaster journey in stock market.
Believe me, I've remembered 99% of my trade I've done till today whether it is jobbing or positional trading.
With Best Wishes
Now I started to plot charts on graph paper and the picture was getting clearer. With my recent findings, I wanted to trade. I thought it was better to have some logic behind every trade. At the same time, I knew that I had to make profit and my capital should be intact which was very very difficult.
Anyway on that belief, I decided that my entry will be in third bar and the target will be the first 15 minutes of the sixth bar (whatever the rate it is). In adverse case, I will exit at the low of the first bar. On that theory, my first two entries (long positions) netted me a profit of 3000/- rupees. It gave me tremendous confidence. But to my disbelief, my next three to four trades were landed me in a net loss of 5000/- rupees. On the other hand, I had to pay around 3000/- as monthly interest to my broker. For my monthly expenses, I was completely dependent on my father but gradually I found pressure from my home to do something. So I was in a depressed condition. Some of my friend's in Delhi (who knew my situation) advised me to forget about my commitment, go back to my home and started something afresh there. But there was a guilty feeling in my mind and thought I had cheated somebody (my broker). In fact, at that moment I was completely mentally weak. I just wanted to get away from this situation but I didn't have any way (Yes, there was a way - That was to tell the truth to my father which I didn't). So I decided to continue. From the present perspective, I think it was a foolish decision.
Now I again analysed the situation and thought since the trend reversed from sixth or seventh bar 80% of time so I decided to go for counter trend trading. My initial parameter were I would enter in the last one-two minute of the seventh bar, in case of adverse movement, I would close the position at the end of the ninth bar (if its low/high is lower/higher than the eighth bar.). At those time one can carry forward a position (long/short) to the next settlement through a mechanism called ALBM (Automated Lending and Borrowing Mechanism) which was started by NSE. On that basis I initiated a short position in 200 ITC shares. But unfortunately, in the next two hour I lost 8000/- rupees. Later I came to know that it was a result day for ITC. Anyway, with frustration I came to my room and started analysing my situation. Finally I decided that this trade might belong to those 20% failure rate category. Then I went for a long position. Again to my disbelief, the trade went against me and there was a huge eighth bar but the price just started to reverse back. I wait patiently and luckly there was no ninth bar low and I closed the position at cost because of my nervousness. After that trade I stopped for two to three days and try to get focused again. My next trade was short 300 shares of Satyam. This trade gave me a profit of 12000/-. But in the subsequent trading, I could not make any gain. Now I analysed the entire situation and my findings were
1. I had only datas of 5 scrips (Reliance, BHEL, ITC, TATA TEA and Satyam), so I had limited no. of choices.
2. Since I analysed on hourly chart, so a signal comes after 4-5 days. On that basis the total number of trades I could do is 4-5 trades per month.
3. As per my capital I only took one position at a time.
4. When a trend started, almost all 5 scrips follow the trend but after 3 bars, only one or two scrips follow the trend but the rest either reversed the trend or went into sideways mode.
Now I had only one option i.e. to take position in all scrips. But my capital did not permit such type of trading. So for me it was completely a multiple question - answer type situation. That means I had to device some other method of trading.
Now have patience for my next roller coaster journey in stock market.
Believe me, I've remembered 99% of my trade I've done till today whether it is jobbing or positional trading.
With Best Wishes
Well , i am reminding one advertisement, where Anil kumble answers all wickets he taken in random order when asked by his daughter. And he said that, he experienced the game , so he had memory of all.
You also sibu3168, its great, as you are having memory of trades happened decade back means, it is some thing more appreciable.
You deserve the best of trading. I am little curious to know how you navigated throughout past 15 years. Pl continue and dont give much gap between post to post. It is just request.
Wish you all the best
You also sibu3168, its great, as you are having memory of trades happened decade back means, it is some thing more appreciable.
You deserve the best of trading. I am little curious to know how you navigated throughout past 15 years. Pl continue and dont give much gap between post to post. It is just request.
Wish you all the best
Hi sunny_ndl,
I think, if a person thinks himself as a trader, then definitely he can remember most of his trades. Because every trade costs him time, torture and most importantly money. In that process he gains experience. Just close your eye and think about your past trades, definitely one can recollect all those trades.
Sorry brother being late, in fact my father is seriously ill. So I am not able to post it in a regular manner. But whenever I get some time, I try to post it. In fact I am very very slow on key board except number pad. So it takes me a lot of time to post.
Sorry for the inconvenience.
With Best Wishes
I think, if a person thinks himself as a trader, then definitely he can remember most of his trades. Because every trade costs him time, torture and most importantly money. In that process he gains experience. Just close your eye and think about your past trades, definitely one can recollect all those trades.
Sorry brother being late, in fact my father is seriously ill. So I am not able to post it in a regular manner. But whenever I get some time, I try to post it. In fact I am very very slow on key board except number pad. So it takes me a lot of time to post.
Sorry for the inconvenience.
With Best Wishes
Sorry to hear about your father's ill health. All our best wishes for his speedy and complete recovery.
Keep writing......we relate to these incidents/trades as if they are our own as every trader undergoes the same/similar process.
Looking forward to more posts as and when your time permits.
Smart_trade
Keep writing......we relate to these incidents/trades as if they are our own as every trader undergoes the same/similar process.
Looking forward to more posts as and when your time permits.
Smart_trade
Hi
Till that time, surprisingly I found every person who was in the market, was a looser (100%). But again to my dismay, I found they came again and again to the market with the hope that they would recover their loss which was never happen. This type of situation made my belief more miserable. Now I desperately wanted to run away from this situation but I was in such a position that I could not think to leave that broker. Also I felt pressure from home to either start a business or to join in any organisation. At that moment, I had around 98,000/- as balance money. So I decided to stop trading for the time being and pay 3000/- as interest amount to my broker for sometime and search any other means to repay his amount.
So I told my broker regarding my feelings. He gave me one week time to discuss the matter again.
After one week, when our meeting starts he inquired about my qualification. I told him I had completed my PG in Mathematics and also I had a MBA degree in Finance from IGNOU and a LLB degree. Also he inquired about my activity after the market hour. I told him about my manual charting practices and let him know about my latest findings. After looking all these things, he quite impressed about me. In fact, he was very impressed on my commitment to repay his dues. So he offered me to join his organisation. I joined his organisation as NSE dealer with a salary of 10,000/- per month. From this 10,000/-, he would deduct 5000/- towards his principal. My nature of the work was to trade in the market on behalf of the company. After six month of trading, he would evaluate my performance and may offer some performance based incentive also. Before trading, he will give some training for two month. Before getting that offer, I was totally depressed but that offer served as a ray of hope for me. With that offer, I found huge relief from my home front also.
In the next two month, I went through a proper but an unconventional type of training which from present day perspective was quite abnormal.
I will explain that training in detail in my next post.
Till then
With Best Wishes
Good Bye
Till that time, surprisingly I found every person who was in the market, was a looser (100%). But again to my dismay, I found they came again and again to the market with the hope that they would recover their loss which was never happen. This type of situation made my belief more miserable. Now I desperately wanted to run away from this situation but I was in such a position that I could not think to leave that broker. Also I felt pressure from home to either start a business or to join in any organisation. At that moment, I had around 98,000/- as balance money. So I decided to stop trading for the time being and pay 3000/- as interest amount to my broker for sometime and search any other means to repay his amount.
So I told my broker regarding my feelings. He gave me one week time to discuss the matter again.
After one week, when our meeting starts he inquired about my qualification. I told him I had completed my PG in Mathematics and also I had a MBA degree in Finance from IGNOU and a LLB degree. Also he inquired about my activity after the market hour. I told him about my manual charting practices and let him know about my latest findings. After looking all these things, he quite impressed about me. In fact, he was very impressed on my commitment to repay his dues. So he offered me to join his organisation. I joined his organisation as NSE dealer with a salary of 10,000/- per month. From this 10,000/-, he would deduct 5000/- towards his principal. My nature of the work was to trade in the market on behalf of the company. After six month of trading, he would evaluate my performance and may offer some performance based incentive also. Before trading, he will give some training for two month. Before getting that offer, I was totally depressed but that offer served as a ray of hope for me. With that offer, I found huge relief from my home front also.
In the next two month, I went through a proper but an unconventional type of training which from present day perspective was quite abnormal.
I will explain that training in detail in my next post.
Till then
With Best Wishes
Good Bye
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