20% ROI per month on captial above 1 Cr possible?

TracerBullet

Well-Known Member
Why we need 1.5 L per lot if we consider 15k as maximum draw down ?

Capital required per lot = margin required + 2 times of maximum DD ( though one time of Maximum DD is enough, we take extra pretty care assuming future will be bad compared to fast....)

Anyway each and everyone has different way to look at MM ,DD and hence % of return..
I rather keep maximum DD within certain % of capital, and size trades based on that. Margin has no bearing on that if it covers my desired risk, in future margin available can change too.

Things can happen in future, max dd can easily exceed past max dd by wide margin. This is especially true due to some optimized ruleset which can just by chance eliminate some critical paths of max dd. DD trades itself is a much smaller sample so not as reliable. Also slippage adds a decent amount to theoretical results. Anyway, so far my experience has been that future can surprise in both up side and down side.

2x may be a decent thumbrule, i use that too. But say you are down 2 times max DD and now you only have margin money. That is too close for comfort and you will have to aggressively scale down if dd continues, not to mention how it would feel at that time.

I can trade like that with small account but cannot do that if aim is to trade with large % of my net worth.
 
We have lively examples of people who make 4x , 5x in single trade and making it consistently

Look at NF traders thread, who trade based on Sanit ji pivot method , avarage results per month is 200 point per lot..means 15k per lot..margin take as 1 lakhs per lot..so they earn 15% per month consistently...if you consider 50k margin per lot , then return per month 30%
Can you direct me to this thread?I have not been able to find any Sanit in search.....thanks...
 

rajesh.singh

Well-Known Member
Good Evening Rajesh Sir
Its really pleasure to see you after a long time.I hope you remember me.3-4 years back,we discuss Price action etc a lot.I am happy that you are trading open in BNF consistently.
Please share your expereince & learning here that how to trade Bank Nifty in opening? Please also tell something about how to trade Price action mechanical.
I have seen some of your old posts also, where you talk about Price action setups where we can have 60% probability & 1:2 Risk reward , can you please share those setups ?
Thanks a lot
Hi Niftytaurus,
First of all cut this Sir.... Rajesh is more than enough.
Not much discussion about Al style of Price Action, and other style I don't understand much, so nothing much to Add. This Thread is about Open and that is what I usually trade, so thought of sharing my own experience that might be of some help. I will try to put some basic concept with some charts, hope that might be of some help.
All the Best.
 

rajesh.singh

Well-Known Member
Trading Open, is bit complex and complete system in itself, just summarizing the thought process I follow to trade Open, and this is system neutral, in respective on trading style or system on follow. As few of you aware my trading style is entirely based on Al Brooks, and what I trade and sharing below are based on that.
In Open there are primarily three kind of setup & every setup is based on below three Parameter, and these parameters are universal in respective of the trading style one follow.
First is the Context. This is supreme, unless we read the context right, we can’t trade right. First thing here is Directional Correctness, followed by Market structure and then the setup.
Second is Location, the trade has to be at some obvious support either at Trend Line or Ema, or whatever way one can define S/R . Advantages of good Location we mostly get Low risk Setup, and most bigger swing move comes from these Location itself. so Location is the key for Setup and Stop.
And third one is strong Signal bar, Advantage of strong signal bar, even if setups fail it gives ample time to scratch. I use simple rule here, if the setup I enter on strong signal bar and entry bar is weak, I just look to bail, as if my read is right then it should be strong entry bar, if anything else means I am wrong with my read and if wrong then no point to wait for stop to hit. Strong signal bars enhance the Probability.
With experience quality of signal bar can be bit laxed provided overall context & Location in place.
So Once I read the context Right, and define Proper Location & Signal bar, following Setups usually I trade.
First one is First pullback(1Pb) after trend, this is best setup, There too first Deep Pullback, ( first 2-3 Leg Pullback after Trend), having around more than 70% probability. So if one need to focus & master then this is The SETUP. in fact, this one setup if one master one doesn’t need any other thing…more than enough for living. Great Math in terms of Probability & R:R
Second one is First Reversal, or Opening Reversal : (1 Rev) A strong reversal from High, Low or Previous close, or reversal from weak trend move in the Open, easy to read and trade again…. And if works goes big.
Point to note here, in Open be ready for Multiple reversals as how strong the move may appear there are more than 50% of Probability of at least 1-2 Reversals. Second Important point for Reversals, once you read that market is reversed, then look for pullback setups in the new direction only, as Pullbacks are the setups in the direction of trend.
Also, only trend can reverse, so no reversal setups in Trading Ranges.
Third one Is Failed Breakout,(Fbo) either failed break out of High-low or Swings on Trading Range days, here second failed Break out attempt will mostly be swing trade. This setup only in Trading Range Price Action.
Apart from the Setups I Guess couple of things if one follow and do religiously it should work wonder in respective of the system. First having the habit of drawing Trend Lines, and base most of the trading decision at Trendline, this itself will enhance Probability, as Trend Line to my understanding is most dynamic, easy and potent trading tool in respective of trading Style. Second counting the Legs, Either in Trend or Trading Range… Counting Legs, and anchoring trades based on it will solve dual purpose , First it will provide best setups to trade, along with work as filter to avoid many bad trades For example to avoid fresh entries or tightening the stop after 3-4 Legs in the given move.
Last the setups should to easy to read and trade in real time , as What I have experienced most big trades comes from most simple setups, and I use simple heuristic here, if any setup that needed effort to read, will not work or not go big. Best Setups mostly present itself. So just focus on couple of Pet Setups ,that should be easy to read real time, and just trade those only to start with. Idea is to have minimal moving parts or discretion, or friction real time. And once in trade, trade management should be mechanical based on the pre defined math and no discretion here, let the math works, in respective of the outcome on individual trades. Though easier said than done, but slowly mind will accept it.
I guess above mention points are central for any trading system.
Below is the Generic Market structure for Trading Open.
1. The opening bar
2. The opening range
3. Breakout and possible reversal of the opening range
4. The AM trend
5. Lunch consolidation
6. Breakout from lunch consolidation
7. The PM trend


All the Best.
 

niftytaurus

Well-Known Member
Thing is even average 100 points will make perfect in consistency...I rather tell everyone who asks it eye for 100 points...actually flow traders need not eye for profits ...need to trade their plan and execute it perfectly...results will come automatically..
Hi Vijay Bro
Long time ,No see! Its really pleasure to see you after a long time.Please keep coming & sharing
 

niftytaurus

Well-Known Member
Hi Niftytaurus,
First of all cut this Sir.... Rajesh is more than enough.
Not much discussion about Al style of Price Action, and other style I don't understand much, so nothing much to Add. This Thread is about Open and that is what I usually trade, so thought of sharing my own experience that might be of some help. I will try to put some basic concept with some charts, hope that might be of some help.
All the Best.
Thanks a lot Rajesh Bro.Its really nice of you to share your experience & knowledge here.
I am always excited & passionate about Price action methods.Pure price charts always fascinates me so does the method.
Please keep sharing.
I have lot of questions & queries for you, which I will ask time to time.Please bear with me:)
Thanks a lot
 

marimuthu13

Well-Known Member
I hope I am not hijacking the thread, if feel something off..please let me know... posting few charts with my actual trades of the three setups I mentioned in the earlier post.
Please free feel to share your input , your way of trading , etc etc ..someone will learn something from some content..
 
Last edited:

marimuthu13

Well-Known Member
Trading Open, is bit complex and complete system in itself, just summarizing the thought process I follow to trade Open, and this is system neutral, in respective on trading style or system on follow. As few of you aware my trading style is entirely based on Al Brooks, and what I trade and sharing below are based on that.
In Open there are primarily three kind of setup & every setup is based on below three Parameter, and these parameters are universal in respective of the trading style one follow.
First is the Context. This is supreme, unless we read the context right, we can’t trade right. First thing here is Directional Correctness, followed by Market structure and then the setup.
Second is Location, the trade has to be at some obvious support either at Trend Line or Ema, or whatever way one can define S/R . Advantages of good Location we mostly get Low risk Setup, and most bigger swing move comes from these Location itself. so Location is the key for Setup and Stop.
And third one is strong Signal bar, Advantage of strong signal bar, even if setups fail it gives ample time to scratch. I use simple rule here, if the setup I enter on strong signal bar and entry bar is weak, I just look to bail, as if my read is right then it should be strong entry bar, if anything else means I am wrong with my read and if wrong then no point to wait for stop to hit. Strong signal bars enhance the Probability.
With experience quality of signal bar can be bit laxed provided overall context & Location in place.
So Once I read the context Right, and define Proper Location & Signal bar, following Setups usually I trade.
First one is First pullback(1Pb) after trend, this is best setup, There too first Deep Pullback, ( first 2-3 Leg Pullback after Trend), having around more than 70% probability. So if one need to focus & master then this is The SETUP. in fact, this one setup if one master one doesn’t need any other thing…more than enough for living. Great Math in terms of Probability & R:R
Second one is First Reversal, or Opening Reversal : (1 Rev) A strong reversal from High, Low or Previous close, or reversal from weak trend move in the Open, easy to read and trade again…. And if works goes big.
Point to note here, in Open be ready for Multiple reversals as how strong the move may appear there are more than 50% of Probability of at least 1-2 Reversals. Second Important point for Reversals, once you read that market is reversed, then look for pullback setups in the new direction only, as Pullbacks are the setups in the direction of trend.
Also, only trend can reverse, so no reversal setups in Trading Ranges.
Third one Is Failed Breakout,(Fbo) either failed break out of High-low or Swings on Trading Range days, here second failed Break out attempt will mostly be swing trade. This setup only in Trading Range Price Action.
Apart from the Setups I Guess couple of things if one follow and do religiously it should work wonder in respective of the system. First having the habit of drawing Trend Lines, and base most of the trading decision at Trendline, this itself will enhance Probability, as Trend Line to my understanding is most dynamic, easy and potent trading tool in respective of trading Style. Second counting the Legs, Either in Trend or Trading Range… Counting Legs, and anchoring trades based on it will solve dual purpose , First it will provide best setups to trade, along with work as filter to avoid many bad trades For example to avoid fresh entries or tightening the stop after 3-4 Legs in the given move.
Last the setups should to easy to read and trade in real time , as What I have experienced most big trades comes from most simple setups, and I use simple heuristic here, if any setup that needed effort to read, will not work or not go big. Best Setups mostly present itself. So just focus on couple of Pet Setups ,that should be easy to read real time, and just trade those only to start with. Idea is to have minimal moving parts or discretion, or friction real time. And once in trade, trade management should be mechanical based on the pre defined math and no discretion here, let the math works, in respective of the outcome on individual trades. Though easier said than done, but slowly mind will accept it.
I guess above mention points are central for any trading system.
Below is the Generic Market structure for Trading Open.
1. The opening bar
2. The opening range
3. Breakout and possible reversal of the opening range
4. The AM trend
5. Lunch consolidation
6. Breakout from lunch consolidation
7. The PM trend


All the Best.
Great rajesh , hats off to you for your detailed write up..
I always wonder how people able to write such a detailed reply..it shows your dedication....

Coming to ORB, ORB is preferred for its simplicity , just buy above high or sell below low

But your way of trading ORB is more complex , hence i assume your system should perform better with lesser DD...
 

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