Tweaks/Experiments in Saint's Intraday Miniflow Method.
- Thread starter manojkch
- Start date
Yes Jatayoo sir, for days like yesterday this would definitely provide a good entry. However on days like last "Friday", we would have had 4 reversals 
. We will have to use this cautiously as of now.
Also i see that the if a reversal is due then we can look at the 1, 3, 5, 10, 15 and 30 to confirm the same. Why do we do this and How?
Say we have a reversal in 3min TF and say on BAR 10 [for example]. If the 11th BAR does not negate the reversal of BAR 10, we will not get a reversal in 5min TF.
Similarly, lets say we have a reversal in the BAR 10 in the 5min TF. This reversal should not be negated or in other words there should not be another reversal in the next 3bars i.e 11th, 12th and 13th. If there is a second reversal within the next 3 bars of the 5min TF, we will not see the reversal in the 15min TF else we will see it. [This usually happens before a Break-out/down] .
So like this, if we can keep a watch at the 3min TF and 5min TF for the reversals, we might be in a better position to go with the flow of the market. We will have a maximum lag of 6 minutes wrt to the movement of the market.
But on days like today, even this 6 minutes lag will not work, within 5 minutes, NF fell over by 55 points. The closest we can get to the flow of the market is by following the 1min TF. Only and Only when NF moves with pace as of today's fall in the later half, we can decide our trades based on 1min TF and 3min TF. Further, we can keep switching from 1,3,5,10,15 and 30 TFs with the above mentioned examples.
Key is identifying a reversal in 3, and 5 and continuously checking/verifying whether a reversal is being negated. This though keeps you busy and might make you shed a bit more for your broker, will help minimize our "losses" or in other words, "maximizes" our profits. I am a beginner and your inputs most welcome.
Regards,
-Sri
. We will have to use this cautiously as of now. Also i see that the if a reversal is due then we can look at the 1, 3, 5, 10, 15 and 30 to confirm the same. Why do we do this and How?
Say we have a reversal in 3min TF and say on BAR 10 [for example]. If the 11th BAR does not negate the reversal of BAR 10, we will not get a reversal in 5min TF.
Similarly, lets say we have a reversal in the BAR 10 in the 5min TF. This reversal should not be negated or in other words there should not be another reversal in the next 3bars i.e 11th, 12th and 13th. If there is a second reversal within the next 3 bars of the 5min TF, we will not see the reversal in the 15min TF else we will see it. [This usually happens before a Break-out/down] .
So like this, if we can keep a watch at the 3min TF and 5min TF for the reversals, we might be in a better position to go with the flow of the market. We will have a maximum lag of 6 minutes wrt to the movement of the market.
But on days like today, even this 6 minutes lag will not work, within 5 minutes, NF fell over by 55 points
. The closest we can get to the flow of the market is by following the 1min TF. Only and Only when NF moves with pace as of today's fall in the later half, we can decide our trades based on 1min TF and 3min TF. Further, we can keep switching from 1,3,5,10,15 and 30 TFs with the above mentioned examples. Key is identifying a reversal in 3, and 5 and continuously checking/verifying whether a reversal is being negated. This though keeps you busy and might make you shed a bit more for your broker, will help minimize our "losses" or in other words, "maximizes" our profits
. I am a beginner and your inputs most welcome.Regards,
-Sri
1) On the 3 minute TF we have 110 bars a day. This is 110 decision points.
2) On the 5 minute TF we have 66 bars. That is 66 decision points.
3) On the 15 minute TF we have just 22 bars.That is 22 decision points in the day.
4) On the 30 minute TF we have just 11 bars which calls upon us to make 11 decisions in a trading day.
Therefore, unless one is confining himself to one scrip he shall have to choose a higher TF in a reliable manner.
Agree but we are looking for the last 2-3 bars for a reversal to get negated in 3min and 5min. For the trend we have to use 15min and 30min TF. If 3min TF is too choppy let's go to 5min, if that's choppy, let's go to 10min.
But the clear movement [up/down] will initiated in the lower time frames and certified by the higher time frames.
Again it's a tradeoff as always how much we can and how much we cannot - wrt time/brokerage/profits/losses. Once used to this, it might become cake-walk
.Regards,
-Sri
Hello Seniors,
One thing about Miniflow has been giving me a nagging feeling. I am almost sure that this is due to lack of a correct perspective. The method of miniflow has been rigorously tested so it definitely does not require any tweaking. Therefore kindly provide your views, so that one may adjust his.
The issue is:
On my third add I am usually threathened (fourth one for me is still unthinkable). It comes pretty high up during the day, so on quick reversal days it always takes out the entire risk amount of the third add and a good chunk of the second add as well, because the SAR could not have been moved higher.
Moreover, consider a day when we are three adds in (1% risk per add) and there has been no opportunity to move the stop higher. 3% is exposed and now the market loses momentum and starts stalling... !
At that time, my state of mind is pretty tense. If this turns out to be a quick reversal day then 3% will be wiped out and worst there is nothing in my system that prevents it. (Yes, there is the 2 bar rule and TFA, but a day slips by where they do not apply, atleast not to the third add). Due to this I am not able to comfortably make the third add.
Pls think about it. If you conclude that this is a non-issue and does not deserve much attention then do state your reasons.
One thing about Miniflow has been giving me a nagging feeling. I am almost sure that this is due to lack of a correct perspective. The method of miniflow has been rigorously tested so it definitely does not require any tweaking. Therefore kindly provide your views, so that one may adjust his.
The issue is:
On my third add I am usually threathened (fourth one for me is still unthinkable). It comes pretty high up during the day, so on quick reversal days it always takes out the entire risk amount of the third add and a good chunk of the second add as well, because the SAR could not have been moved higher.
Moreover, consider a day when we are three adds in (1% risk per add) and there has been no opportunity to move the stop higher. 3% is exposed and now the market loses momentum and starts stalling... !
At that time, my state of mind is pretty tense. If this turns out to be a quick reversal day then 3% will be wiped out and worst there is nothing in my system that prevents it. (Yes, there is the 2 bar rule and TFA, but a day slips by where they do not apply, atleast not to the third add). Due to this I am not able to comfortably make the third add.
Pls think about it. If you conclude that this is a non-issue and does not deserve much attention then do state your reasons.
Last edited:
After initial position ,I take the first add very quickly. But the second add I dont take if the SAR does not move in my favour and also the initial position is not out of woods....Or take small quantity....and third add for me is a very small quantity as there is a good chance of reversal of if not,my initial position and 2 adds are making good money for me.
Though quantity is a function of your average price and the distance of SAR from average point...a rule of thumb of 100% initial position +100% first add +50% second add +25-30 % third add may help....always add in pyramid and not tower fashion.
I generally try to keep my exposure under tight control and not increase too much by adds. It is very important if you are planning to extract maximum mileage from your position by holding till EOD or reversal. With increased exposure,you tend to dump a good position a bit too early....
Smart_trade
Though quantity is a function of your average price and the distance of SAR from average point...a rule of thumb of 100% initial position +100% first add +50% second add +25-30 % third add may help....always add in pyramid and not tower fashion.
I generally try to keep my exposure under tight control and not increase too much by adds. It is very important if you are planning to extract maximum mileage from your position by holding till EOD or reversal. With increased exposure,you tend to dump a good position a bit too early....
Smart_trade
For miniflow, it is normally with one add only. Second add is taken only on pivot break when the SAR moves in your favor as ST has already pointed out. And the risk should always be within your MM rules. Even with adds it should never exceed what you have laid down for yourself. Never ever try to fiddle with these rules.
Kapil
Kapil
At the time of the third add I am ready to book profits on the first two adds.I am thus left with the entry quantity + the 3rd add quantity.My risk has vanished.
Yes, one must let his profits run so I let the entry quantity and the third add run as long as the market is moving in my direction and their are no signs to the contrary.
I would have made more money if I had not booked profits in add no 1 & 2, but my comfort level would have been low as you have experienced.
The idea is to have a strategy that gives you wins consistently rather than 'enormously'.NO rules of mini flow are violated.Basically, it is a healthy balance that one has to strike..:clapping::clapping:
Yes, one must let his profits run so I let the entry quantity and the third add run as long as the market is moving in my direction and their are no signs to the contrary.
I would have made more money if I had not booked profits in add no 1 & 2, but my comfort level would have been low as you have experienced.
The idea is to have a strategy that gives you wins consistently rather than 'enormously'.NO rules of mini flow are violated.Basically, it is a healthy balance that one has to strike..:clapping::clapping:
Last edited:
Hi Manoj,
I wanted to learn a little more in detail about ur tweak.
Your tweak says that:
1) If the low of the 12.30-sf is taken out then 85% of the times the market will close below the 12.30 bar.
2) If the High of the 12.30+sf is taken out then 85% of the times the market will close above the 12.30 bar.
Right?
I wanted to learn a little more in detail about ur tweak.
Your tweak says that:
1) If the low of the 12.30-sf is taken out then 85% of the times the market will close below the 12.30 bar.
2) If the High of the 12.30+sf is taken out then 85% of the times the market will close above the 12.30 bar.
Right?
Dear Amit...
If the high/low of the 12.30 bar is taken out with filter ( currently 8... not necessarily by the immediate next bar),
then...
1) 80% of the time, the market does not reverse to that bar, 12.30, in opposite direction (with filter 8)
For Ex : Suppose the High and low of 12.30 bar is 3630 and 3600 resp. Then if this bar is cracked on upper side i.e 3630+8=3638 then there are only 20 % chances that the market will go below 3600-8 = 3592.
2)90% of the time, market moves by at least 13 points in the direction of the crack.
For Ex: Taking the above example, it will go to 3630+8+13=3651 for 90% time.
(This means we can very well book profit at 21 points (8+13) above/below the 12.30 bar if the trade is in our favor.)
For the above study , I have taken data from 12-03-09 to 14-05-09...40 tradings days.) The results of the study before this date is posted on 1st page of this thread which almost match with this study)
IMHO, we can utilize this information as an additional confirmatory signal along with our 30 min flow ( of course, when in doubt) for reversal /add and profit booking.
PS. This study does suggest that we should reverse at 12.30 bar crack ( as neither it is as per Miniflow rules nor it is tested for its positive results for profitability on such reversal) Mostly in my opinion we can very well utilize this information for part profit booking ( especially when the trade is in our favor but not showing enough strength to go in our favor)
Hope this clarifies your doubts. If not, please do ask.
Thanks and regards
Manoj
If the high/low of the 12.30 bar is taken out with filter ( currently 8... not necessarily by the immediate next bar),
then...
1) 80% of the time, the market does not reverse to that bar, 12.30, in opposite direction (with filter 8)
For Ex : Suppose the High and low of 12.30 bar is 3630 and 3600 resp. Then if this bar is cracked on upper side i.e 3630+8=3638 then there are only 20 % chances that the market will go below 3600-8 = 3592.
2)90% of the time, market moves by at least 13 points in the direction of the crack.
For Ex: Taking the above example, it will go to 3630+8+13=3651 for 90% time.
(This means we can very well book profit at 21 points (8+13) above/below the 12.30 bar if the trade is in our favor.)
For the above study , I have taken data from 12-03-09 to 14-05-09...40 tradings days.) The results of the study before this date is posted on 1st page of this thread which almost match with this study)
IMHO, we can utilize this information as an additional confirmatory signal along with our 30 min flow ( of course, when in doubt) for reversal /add and profit booking.
PS. This study does suggest that we should reverse at 12.30 bar crack ( as neither it is as per Miniflow rules nor it is tested for its positive results for profitability on such reversal) Mostly in my opinion we can very well utilize this information for part profit booking ( especially when the trade is in our favor but not showing enough strength to go in our favor)
Hope this clarifies your doubts. If not, please do ask.
Thanks and regards
Manoj
| Thread starter | Similar threads | Forum | Replies | Date |
|---|---|---|---|---|
|
My experiments with MFs | Mutual Funds Discussion Forum | 93 | |
| R | Experiments with Market Profile | Advanced Trading Strategies | 53 | |
| G | Trading logs/experiments | Commodities | 8 | |
|
My Experiments with Charts | Members Discussion Forums | 1 | |
|
NSE EOD Data of NSE Site for Amibroker - Tweaks | End of Day | 3 |