Trading NR7 setup

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AW10

Well-Known Member
Thanks Mangafreakz for the link.
@Bandlab, if you are looking at developing a system on it.. the my suggestion will be to focus on the EXITs.

There are only two method of entries possible
1) enter at above / below the bar's high /low = H/L of Narrow range.
2) forget the breakout entry..but wait for price retracement and then enter next trend in the direction of breakout. Success rate is much higher here and u can avoid many false breakouts.

but main difference in profitablity will come from your EXITs.

All the best and happy trading
 

ag_fx

Well-Known Member
@Bandlab
If you are looking to trade NR7 , have a look at this strategy , its based on Inside bars.
http://www.forexfactory.com/showpost.php?p=2003442&postcount=1
The link that you posted is of DIBS method. It is a lootttttttttttttttttttttt different than what we trade in Indian markets and practically it cant be really implemented in Indian Markets. DIBS is effective because of 24 hour nature of the markets and even then the success rate is very low. Though, with proper MM and exits, you do come ahead with it and is a long used method. But, I really doubt you can implement it in Indian market scenario.
 

rkkarnani

Well-Known Member
Thanks Mangafreakz for the link.
@Bandlab, if you are looking at developing a system on it.. the my suggestion will be to focus on the EXITs.

There are only two method of entries possible
1) enter at above / below the bar's high /low = H/L of Narrow range.
2) forget the breakout entry..but wait for price retracement and then enter next trend in the direction of breakout. Success rate is much higher here and u can avoid many false breakouts.

but main difference in profitablity will come from your EXITs.

All the best and happy trading
AW10, Whats your view on using a NR bar to trade only if the Range is N% of ATR of past N periods.

Trust I am able to explain what I am trying to say. Let us say we have a NR7 bar with a range of say 69 points. The ATR of past 10 bars is 100 points. Can we have some rule to trade it only if the range of the NR7 bar was 60!! i.e 60% of the past 10 period ATR!!!

About Exit I fully agree that if we can master it the major battle is won!!!
Thanks.
 

rkkarnani

Well-Known Member
AW10 says Focus on the EXITS... so also says VAN K. THARP in his book SUPER TRADER : Copy pasting the relevant portion :

Exits Are the Key to Making Money​

As I mentioned earlier, I decided to prove to myself that one
can make money with random entry. When you employ random
entry, you are giving up any advantage that your particular
setup and entry edge have. The only way you can make money
is to catch a strong trend occasionally, make sure your losses
are not too big, and practice proper position sizing.
How can your exits help you catch a strong trend? In a
random entry system, when you exit, youll enter back into a
trade again and lose another $100 in slippage and commissions.
Thus, you want your initial exit to be large enough to make sure
that you dont exit very often. At the same time, you dont want
to enter into a trend in the wrong direction, which would cause
you to pile up huge losses. Thus, to make the random entry
system work, I needed an initial stop that was big enough to
keep me in the market while it was just making random noise
movements or moving sideways. I chose to exit at three times
the 20-day volatility or average true range.
I like to keep things simple, and so I made the abort exit
and the profit-taking exit very similar. I trailed three times
the 20-day average true range from the closing price. Thus,
if the price moved in my favor, so did the trailing stop, and
if the volatility shrank, the stop also would move in my favor.
The stop was moved only in my favor, never against me.
As a result of this exit, I was able to stay in sideways markets
a long time and not get stopped out. If I entered against a trend,
I was stopped out quickly and hoped the random entry would
reenter in the direction of the trend. Also, if I was lucky enough to
enter in the direction of the trend, my stop kept me in the trend
for a long time. It was that easy. With that simple exit, the random
entry system was able to follow the golden rule of trading (cutting
losses short and letting profits run) and thus make money overall.
The first kind of exit you need to know about is the abort
exit. This is the exit that defines your initial risk, or what Ive
been calling 1R.
In reality, there are two kinds of initial exits: tight ones
(1R is small) and wide ones (1R is big). Each has some
distinct advantages. The wide exit keeps you in a trade for
a long time and gives it a chance to start working for you.
Thus, if you like to be right, you have more of a chance with a
wide exit. Examples of this include the three times volatility
exit mentioned above for the random entry system and a 25%
retracement exit, which works fairly well for stocks. If you
want to buy and hold stocks as long as you can, simply use a
25% trailing stop as an exit, adjusting it up whenever the stock
makes a new high.
The other type of initial exit is the narrow exit, which
defines 1R as a very small amount. If you want to be right, you
dont want this sort of exit because youll be stopped out a
lot. However, if you want large R-multiple gains, youll find
some advantage to tight initial exits.
Lets look at an example. Suppose you buy a $50 stock
when it breaks out from a consolidation with power. If you put
your stop below the consolidation, say, at $45, youll probably
be right a lot. However, if the stock goes up $10 in price, you
will have made only twice your risk, or 2R.
Suppose you put your stop in at $49, a dollar away. If the
move has power behind it, the stock should keep moving and
you wont be stopped out. Furthermore, if the stock goes up
$10, youve now made a 10R profit, or 10 times your initial risk.
In fact, you could be stopped out three times in a row, getting
three 1R losses, and then make your 10R profit. You are right
only 25% of the time, but your total profit is 7R.
At this point you might be thinking, Yes, you make 7R, but
you started out with a very small risk. Thats where position
sizing comes into play. What would happen if you risked 1% of
your account on every trade? If you are up 7R, youll be up
about 7%, no matter how big or small R is for one unit.
******************************************************
 

rohangawale

Well-Known Member
NR7 Stocks Triggered on 19th Nov:
Code:
[B]STOCK		HIGH		LOW[/B]
BHARTI		296.85		291.3
BHEL		2,274.70	2,250.00
GAIL		389		382.1
M&M		1028		1005
POWERGRID	105.5		104.1
TATA POWER	1328.9		1311
WIPRO		654.4		640.25
NR7 Stock Close on 20 Nov:
Code:
		[B]19-Nov			20-Nov	
STOCK		HIGH	LOW		Close	Trigger[/B]
BHARTI		296.85	291.3		288.75	Down Break
BHEL		2,274.7  2,250.00	2261.40	No Breakout
GAIL		389	382.1		390.30	Up Break
M&M		1028	1005		1040.20	Up Break
POWERGRID	105.5	104.1		106.80	Up Break
TATA POWER	1328.9	1311		1321.10	No Breakout
WIPRO		654.4	640.25		649.05	No Breakout
 

AW10

Well-Known Member
AW10, Whats your view on using a NR bar to trade only if the Range is N% of ATR of past N periods.

Trust I am able to explain what I am trying to say. Let us say we have a NR7 bar with a range of say 69 points. The ATR of past 10 bars is 100 points. Can we have some rule to trade it only if the range of the NR7 bar was 60!! i.e 60% of the past 10 period ATR!!!

About Exit I fully agree that if we can master it the major battle is won!!!
Thanks.
Yes RKKarnani. You can use this approach of (Today Range) = x% of (10 days ATR).. as a way to identify the potential bar of interest. Just another way of identifying the contraction.

Thru backtest, one can find out the acceptable value of x, frequence of its occurance and success rate. IMO, there is trade-off of all these 3 parameters.
- x = 50% of ATR, will give very few signals but good success rate
- x = 70% of ATR, will give more signal but lower success rate.. i.e. extra false breakouts are also signalled here.

I generally take anything less then 80% of range as contraction.. It may or may-not be a NR7 day. If u had noticed my posts, I keep mentioning about last 10 days average range (not exactly the ATR cause it is slightly complex to calculate then just calculating daily range).

Happy Trading
 

AW10

Well-Known Member
AW10 says Focus on the EXITS... so also says VAN K. THARP in his book SUPER TRADER : Copy pasting the relevant portion :

Exits Are the Key to Making Money​

******************************************************
RK Karnani. Do you follow Van Tharp ?

He is my guru (haven't done his expensive course but read and implemented a lot of whatever he has written). I follow him closely along with few others.

Happy Trading
 

rkkarnani

Well-Known Member
RK Karnani. Do you follow Van Tharp ?

He is my guru (haven't done his expensive course but read and implemented a lot of whatever he has written). I follow him closely along with few others.

Happy Trading
No AW, I dont follow Van Tharp!!! Just had this book and as was looking something to develop the NR7 into strategy I ws looking around on my PC. When you wrote about EXITS i suddenly remembered about this article by Tharp.
Its so nice of you to have been helping people like me here to be better traders!!!
Thanks.
 

Mangafreakz

Well-Known Member
The link that you posted is of DIBS method. It is a lootttttttttttttttttttttt different than what we trade in Indian markets and practically it cant be really implemented in Indian Markets. DIBS is effective because of 24 hour nature of the markets and even then the success rate is very low. Though, with proper MM and exits, you do come ahead with it and is a long used method. But, I really doubt you can implement it in Indian market scenario.
Yes Ankit , its the DIBS method posted in FF forum by Peter crowns , ex-pit trader. True , its better suited for 24hour market and with 1hr TF charts.
 
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