nac Calling JOBBERS/SCALPERS

[sanjay1876]

hi
just go to youtube and watch a video of a caterpillar turning into a butterfly. it is a very difficult and painful process after which the caterpillar turns into a beautiful butterfly. the sad reality is that if someone tries to help the caterpillar to come out of its pupa, the caterpillar will not survive as a butterfly. it has to endure that pain himself in order to gain the strength it requires later in life.

what u are trying to teach Nac about risk management and money management has been written many times over in many of the threads @ traderji. I am sure Nac would have gone thru all this many times over. maybe this is the time where he is trying to come out of his "shell" and maybe after enduring this pain , he turns into a 'beautiful butterfly'.

regards

Anurag

You missed my point Anurag. I'm not teaching him anything, i'm not good enough. If you read carefully i'm telling him to use his own common sense/judgement whatever you call it . Every ones perception of risk is different and hence their management of it is different.
Now coming to next point, larvae of butterfly will become butterfly but larvae of housefly cannot become butterfly.

See, all of our intentions are same. We do not want him to lose much now. Which ever way it happens, either by cautious trading or by giving up all together.

 

[iamaaditya]

I'm not trying to berate him. I have unequivocally said sorry where I felt my words were harsh.
And the story you point is exactly what I was saying. That we all have illusions about overselves (can be both ways, like overestimating our real ability or like underestimating our real ability). But most of us can realise the truth when pointed out, like in Robbies case he realised his true ability when pointed out. Story is good so far. Important thing is that Robbie had inherent ability all the time, but what if he really did not have the ability?
I will give you an illustration:
Lets take some television programme like Indian Idol. There are some contestants who come for auditons, and from very begining it is clear that they cannot sing no matter what. And these contestants consider themselves to be best singers and keep insisting it. These types make fool of themselves. Now, ther are other types. They may not sing their best, but have the ability. So after few applause encouragement they begin to show big improvement in their singing.

I have found two things in him which maybe the reason he is making losses(if he really is). One he is very stubborn, and second he is not using common sense otherwise 27% losses in single day in this market is next to impossible for person trying to make profits.

If I were to make a suggestion to him then i'll tell him to be more flexible and use his own common sense. All the stuff that you read in the books can be fu..ed.

One needs to always encourage right person, but not everyone. The Pig can never become beautiful no matter how much makeup you put on it.

Also, if someone says i'm going to commit suicide and don't stop me from doing so. What will you do?

I respect your view and it is the most general view. I can't speak for others, but i am among the minority who doesn't believe in innate ability (god's gift as we say). I am more of a believer in Richard Dennis that everything could be taught incl Trading (Turtle's experiment proved to be a great success).

Sorry nac, but i will have to agree with Sanjay that till now You haven't shown signs of progress (i.e morning isn't good, so logical consequence is to presume day will be bad [old proverb in working]), but the point where i disagree is I believe nac can change, for that anyone can change. Most of the greatest mind i know showed no signs of it early on (from Einstein to my idol Thomas Alva Edison (his teacher sent a note to his mother saying "your son is too dumb to teach").

If there were no hopes of improvement and change, then slow students (or the special ones as we say), shouldn't be sent to school. Students who fail, should quit school and start working on petty jobs. But there is hope and there is belief, this is the force which keeps on trying and going.

Regarding your Indian Idol e.g, i don't know if you have heard of susan boyle or if you have heard susan boyle. She was the epitome of the kind you described ("a pig"), it looked she was misplaced and was sure to be mocked. But then she rocked the stage, judges and certainly Myself.

here's the video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9lp0IWv8QZY

 

[tnsn2345]

Dear All,

What is the fuss of 27% loss in a single day? I will not be surprised if some of most successful traders would have had such an experience.

Well many seasoned and successful traders might see Nac's performance, attitude only as their own history some years ago.

If Nac has lost big, now he has the ability to bid and win big too (which most of small-loss-profit traders may not develop over years) only if he can learn asset allocation and risk management in times to come. He can still evolve and do better.

Regards,

p.s. If we are all too good at our methods and best in our judgement about others, what are we doing here???

 

[tnsn2345]

TNSN sir, I am much impressed with your post and has also followed your advice of not sharing much feeling and activity with fellows friends here. I think you has many experience in this field which you are expressing by way of advice and sugjestions to us.

You have also nicely mentioned your risk managment style in other post also. I want to know your performance in this field, how you target profits and how you take profits. Pls share your experience and profit taking method for our benifit. And also are you full time trader. Kindly advise.

Thank you and best luck

Dear Ranger,

In the same post I have covered some elements of exiting the trades (in profit or loss).

If sun rises in east (it is a given fact) you can't question or change that. Similarly, Money management (asset allocation) and Risk Management cannot change either you are full time or part time trader.

If you are good at the above two, I guess no one can stop you from becoming a net profitable trader. The quantum of profit and RoI will depend on your method and instruments you use.

Regards,

 

[nac]

Since you guys don't know whether I am playing with you or not, I am here assuring you that I ain't playing

iamaaditya -

Yeah, I sure read the book YOUR WAY TO FINANCIAL FREEDOM. Thanks for the suggestion... I am not much of a reader, but I sure I read it soon. I was trading (virtual) few years back in investopedia, virtualstockexchange. I haven't started to trade in tradesim.

I started to read PHANTOM OF THE PITS. Yet to read the story you quoted. It's a nice story.

Thanks for believing that I could come up and change and rectify my mistakes.

I remember this quote "Change is the only thing that remains constant" When everything in this world can change, Why I can't? I'll show everyone that I can change.

sanjay -

Don't be doubtful, I ain't playing with you guys. Don't amuse after seeing me. I agreed that I was wrong. It can happen to any one who trades like me. Yeah I got that illusion on me.

When I heard this term I remember this quote "Everything you've seen is an illusion, it's a trick" from the movie THE ILLUSIONIST.

Sorry, I guess, my posts are like casual approach to you. It ain't, actually its too painfull. Thanks for your suggestion, but I am gonna continue with more caution.

I am glad you guys don't want me to lose.

Marketrider -

My daily stop limit is 1%. I guess now you know one among plenty of things I over-rode.

Anurag-

Thank you for this positive vibe. I am experiencing kinda pain you were refering. I want that transition to come in near future.

tnsn-

Thanks for supporting words.

When I was working, always my best(numbers) was far better than my worst. Yeah, it is really paining a lot but this ain't matter when I have the pulse of the market. Everybody will have their chance, now its market's (taking from me). Soon I will have my turn, then I take it from the market I lost.

 

[iamaaditya]

I am not much of a reader.

, buddy if you want to last long, there is no way you can loathe reading, it must be your hobby, passion, desire and indispensable thing. And anytime you are short of reading materials, do let me know. I have tons of them.
These days i am reading Patel's "Mind of a Trader", Norman's "Stock market logic" and Taylor's "Mastering Derivatives Maket". and I highly suggest these books.

I'll show everyone that I can change.

That's my boy. Keep the attitude but never be arrogant. Market knows zillion ways to humble traders.

Sorry, I guess, my posts are like casual approach to you. It ain't, actually its too painfull. Thanks for your suggestion, but I am gonna continue with more caution.

It's the pain of such days which makes a lasting impression and stops us from breaking our rules.

My daily stop limit is 1%.

Isn't 1% little less !! Don't be so afraid that you don't risk the required size to make a comeback.

Everybody will have their chance, now its market's (taking from me). Soon I will have my turn, then I take it from the market I lost.

Get rid of this thinking/attitude as soon as you can. This will destroy you. Market rewards you for your discipline on trade after trade, on your prudence decision making and on your ability to keep cool. Personally I never got too far with this thinking "I take it from Maket".

We would be glad to know your weekly results (just you ended in green or red would be sufficient, I hope this much will be fine with tnsn also)


All the best on getting rewarded ( Remember, Market is for reverance and not revenge)

 

[tnsn2345]

Second Aaditya's comments without any edit !!!

Regards and best wishes,

 

[anuragmunjal]

When I was working, always my best(numbers) was far better than my worst. Yeah, it is really paining a lot but this ain't matter when I have the pulse of the market. Everybody will have their chance, now its market's (taking from me). Soon I will have my turn, then I take it from the market I lost

hi Nac

Aditya has put it very nicely. this statement of urs shows arrogance. it seems u want 2 get back at 'them', but believe me there is no 'them ' in this market, there is only 'me'.the market is very impassionate towards my profits or losses.
I am powerless in this market. when I put in a trade to buy a stock, it is obvious that I want the stock to move up,but the market does not have any respect for my desires. it is not in my power to move the stock even one tick above the price that I have bought it for.now if I am so powerless,where do I get the edge to make money in this market.
I have one tool with me which all the power and might of this market cannot take away from me and that is my stoploss. so start taking care of ur losses and ur profits will automatically start to take care of themselves.

regards

Anurag

 

[nac]

Some of you think that my words show that I am arrogant. Actually it ain't, I am not an arrogant or over-confident person. May be its because of the language I am not comfortable with... Please don't think that I am arrogant.

aaditya -

I was saying what/how I am. Don't take it as I am insulting or not caring your words. I have few hundred books with me which I have for more than 3 years. Factually speaking, I have read 4 or 5 books in this 20+ yrs (other than school/college books). Now I started to read few books like OPTIONS TRADING PRIMER, PHANTOM OF THE PITS. I guess, soon I start to read more.

I feel 1% stop loss is decent. My stop limit was 0.2% when I was employed in a trading firm.

That's not the attitude I got that "I will get back what I lost" "I will make profit soon".... It's all what I "hope" "desire" "wanting to"... I don't know how to express this. Some thing like "How it could be if I am in profit now" "How it could be if my chart heading north" Thought is like that...

I know I can only be in green if I am disciplined in my trading. I know very well but the emotions. It's a matter of time, to find and correct what I am lacking.

Anurag -

I guess you know, I was trading without stop loss. That's my practice all the time except while learning to trade. Now I am trading with stop loss. This is a progress, I guess.

 

[iamaaditya]

Some of you think that my words show that I am arrogant. Actually it ain't, I am not an arrogant or over-confident person. May be its because of the language I am not comfortable with... Please don't think that I am arrogant.

Good to know that you are not arrogant. (Language is not a problem).

Dude, there are few books which are must call it Bible in Trading if you will.
1. Reminiscences Of A Stock Operator (Story of Jesse Livermore, for me personally, Newtonhysics :: Livermore:Trading)
2. Market Wizards (3 books, Interviews of Greatest Traders of all time)
3. Trading for a Living (Elder Alexander)
4. The Disciplined Trader (Mark Douglas)

Please, Please, Please read above books. I can't explain what you are missing, once you have read above books your views and perception will align to what is necessary for success.

anyone who is into trading and have not read above books, my humble request Please read them (and in the order mentioned)

All the best NAC for tommorrow's trade. Never forget Capital Preservation is more important than Capital Appreciation.